Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[SpurMeUp]

Why do you make these sorts of statements?
Why do you not only present aggressive judgemental opinions, but then couch them as 'facts'?
Look, if you want to make sure you have the gold 'I Supported You Thomas' badge should it all work out, don't worry, you have it and will be noted as such.

I actually think we’re in a perilous position now, and it’s quite possible things will get worse for Frank and us now. We are so underpowered in midfield and attack. Richarlison and Bentancur Havnt had any rotation. So much will depend on how Tel, Odobert, Gray and Bergvall step up.

So despite the training work ethic that Frank is instilling and the pragmatic approach to winning matches, we are in real danger of losing a very decent coach.

Frank is probably on a par with someone like Emery. He would rebuild somewhere else and with the right players and time - everyone would be proclaiming him as one of best. So personally I think it would be a shame to play snakes and ladders with managers again because some fans undermine Frank, because they wanted to be right about Postecoglou.

 

[fernadez]

Last seasons numbers :

Most Through Balls Premier League Team 24-25 Season | StatMuse

Manchester United completed the most through balls by a club in the Premier League in 2024-25, with 34 through balls.

www.statmuse.com

So on course to be exactly the same as last season.

My thing about when people speak about the attacking intent, setup etc of last year is that I never saw it myself, we passed it more or less the same as now except now feels like we try more crosses.

 

[SpurMeUp]

If you changed that first line to say 'lack of progressive passing midfielders' then I'd be in total agreement.

The 'horse-shoe nonsense'? How many times do we go side to side and up the sides? Or is that 'imagination'?

Again, (and this seems to be something you either refuse to acknowledge because you haven't registered it, or refuse to acknowledge because it doesn't fit your narratives), the style we are currently deploying (no progression through the middle areas of the pitch, no attempt to pass through the middle, and seemingly no rustle of transfer activity to suggest we are looking for such players) is either one you enjoy or one you don't.

Look, give him all the time you want, it comes down to whether you want that style at this club or not. Where we possibly differ, is that I do think you believe TF will develop into a manager who can coach, and will use, a more attractive style. I have yet to see evidence of that in his Premier League career. This has nothing to do with whether he's a 'good' manager or not (only a fool would deny he's not a good managher - his work at Brentford was great) it is about whether you want that at this club. As I have taken great care to express, I actually have sympathy for him. That does not mean I am enjoying the football; it is possible for both feelings to exist at the same time.

Earlier we heard that results weren’t important as the style of play. Last game we played with some style and most ‘neutral’ Spurs fans applauded it. Yet those entrenched in not wanting Postecoglou sacked weren’t able to acknowledge the progress. Wanting instead to undermine the manager.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Earlier we heard that results weren’t important as the style of play. Last game we played with some style and most ‘neutral’ Spurs fans applauded it. Yet those entrenched in not wanting Postecoglou sacked weren’t able to acknowledge the progress. Wanting instead to undermine the manager.

I don’t think that is true. I think everyone has said (the first half) of the Sunderland game was better (albeit from a very low bar). We actually set up our positions quite high up the pitch and pressed the opposition in the first half and it is imperative that we press teams with our lack of progressive passers/passing (depending on your viewpoint). ‘Better’ doesn’t necessarily mean ‘good’. I’m hoping to see us improve on the Sunderland performance tonight. If we do so but don’t get a win then I’ll happily accept that we’ve improved two games in a row, as will most if not all on here I’m sure.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

So Palace strung us along when we knew what was the release clause and never paid it... but Forest were some paradigm of good faith when we did pay the clause but they refused to accept it???

He didn't, we had our deal accepted by Palace and Eze and his team sat on our deal and pushed through the Arsenal deal from that platform.

MGW, well the closest we know to what happened is his interview fairly recently when he alluded to the fact his issues in his personal life at the time were supported by Forest and he felt a sense of loyalty not to push the deal through

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

If you look at the passing stats, they back up what you’re saying: passing through the middle is generally poor, with most of the play coming down the wings. Frank’s system simply exacerbates that weakness. I’ve seen the numbers as well, and they’re clearly worse now, but that’s largely because his style exposes the squad’s underlying lack of passing quality. The root of the problem is the limited passing range and execution to begin with. Ange was able to mask it to some extent by using a short-passing approach that encouraged close combinations, but the actual quality of the passing wasn’t any better.

Which is why people like myself, @fernadez and @Jurgen the German were speaking about it even before last season but in the window particularly.

MGW ...a big miss, hey ho

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

There doesn't seem to be any sway in opinions over the last couple of weeks, I would say it's fair to summarise all of the back and forth as such:

-The majority feel the football has been a less than enjoyable watch on the whole
-The majority want to give Frank further time (at least the full season) to see how the football evolves both with the opportunity of having added signings and further time on the training ground to work on things and of course some key players back
- Everyone is in agreement we need better players than what we have for where we want to be, but a lot (probably majority but not sure totally) believe we can still be playing better with what the players we do have
- Almost everyone agrees we are underperforming positionally in the league, but recognise are within touching distance of European spots so not going to get a fair/clear view of achievement until end of season
- A very small proportion would rather Frank be removed now

I don't see any viewpoints changing much in the short term, and above is just how I see the consensus of views....

Bump.

Lots been written....but still this.

 

[Mikey10]

So on course to be exactly the same as last season.

My thing about when people speak about the attacking intent, setup etc of last year is that I never saw it myself, we passed it more or less the same as now except now feels like we try more crosses.

Thank you.

This x 1,000.

 

[Robspur12]

I would absolutely agree with this except time and time again, when an opportunity presents itself, he doesn't take the 'risk'. Take Sunday. 1-1. He brings Palhinha on. It is the perfect opportunity to use Palhinha for what he is -an expert closer- and place either Gray or Bergvall with him to drive and carry the ball from deep, with Bentancur playing further forward (having shown in the first=half he can still be progressive when given the chance). Instead we paired them up. Or why not got two up top and make the most of Muani and Richarlison? I'm not saying he has an entire squad to choose from, I'm not even saying he has the best of the best, but those moments/those tactical decisions, tell me something. They tell me he is averse to risk after a certain point. Sunderland were leaving lots of space, and whilst I know Bergvall is not a 'passer' per se, when carrying from deeper positions, he has found a channel ball/clipped pass into space and behind a few times this season. I am waiting to see a little more adventure, or indeed signs of it. We absolutely could've won that game IMO had we not been so risk averse in the second-half/last 2-25 minutes. Still, it's a choice and I have to accept that.

With respect, why would you take a risk when we were winning? Why would you implement a complicated reconfiguration of players late in the game when they are tired and more likely to make mistakes and the formation we were playing was actually performing reasonably well? I mean Sunderland were not tearing us open at that point. Also why would Bergvall be effective in the 2 at that stage of the game when he has just come on and not used to the tempo of the game? Did you see the throw in he fudged up when we were in a really good position to the left hand side of their box? He fudges up nearer our goal and we concede it will smash his confidence. And I think what you suggested would have ceded the initiative completely to Sunderland.

What you are suggesting are not risks that need to be taken at that stage of the game when you are 1-0 up.

I suspect most managers would try to shore things up which is what Palhinha did in a way. I would go further to say a lot of managers might have brought on an extra CB. Which, in hindsight, probably would have stopped them scoring the equaliser they did where their striker found himself between our 2 CBs. But it was a sign that TF didn't want us to sit back, that he made a like for like replacement in the middle than bringing on the extra CB. Unfortunately it might have cost us 2 points. But I think it's easy to see a decision as wrong in hindsight.

With respect Steff I think you are projecting a fan's point of view rather than what a manager would do. Which is fine of course because that what a forum is for. I just feel we are being a little unfair to TF. He's the one who actually has to make the tough decisions and in real time.

 

[Muttley]

Bergval’s development seems to have gone backwards this season. On the flip side Gray has developed well.

Nah, I'm not in that place. I'm just saying that Bergval wasn't ready to be on the bench at the weekend.

I have been on record saying that Frank's individual plan is in motion for Bergval and we'll reap the benefits of the training ground work soon. We are seeing it with Gray and Odobert as well. We could have even been seeing it with Tel as well against Sunderland.

Lots have been acknowledging Bents improvements in the last 3-5 games.

 

[Raziel]

And that's good? Or should be followed like a lemming?

Commentary on the world mate, nothing more, we don't have to disagree on everything

That’s because most of them leave of their own accord to work for better employers….

Actually worse, the pay structure creates "challenges" at certain intervals that make people more likely to leave.

So Palace strung us along when we knew what was the release clause and never paid it... but Forest were some paradigm of good faith when we did pay the clause but they refused to accept it???

One we could have been smarter about, the other was a bit more out of our control.

Eze & his team would never have let on anything that would have made us step away - why would they do that and risk a potential transfer and the money involved?

His position was well known re Scum, when you interview people one of the simplest questions you have to come away with is "does this person want this job or a job", hence my earlier comment re sniff test, and we should also be aware of if others really are at the table.

 

[Raziel]

I actually think we’re in a perilous position now, and it’s quite possible things will get worse for Frank and us now. We are so underpowered in midfield and attack. Richarlison and Bentancur Havnt had any rotation. So much will depend on how Tel, Odobert, Gray and Bergvall step up.

So despite the training work ethic that Frank is instilling and the pragmatic approach to winning matches, we are in real danger of losing a very decent coach.

Frank is probably on a par with someone like Emery. He would rebuild somewhere else and with the right players and time - everyone would be proclaiming him as one of best. So personally I think it would be a shame to play snakes and ladders with managers again because some fans undermine Frank, because they wanted to be right about Postecoglou.

Not even close

- Emery is similar age (2 years older), has won 4 Europa Leagues, a French League title, 2 French domestic cups and managed PSG & Arsenal.

If we had a chance to swap Frank for Emery, it would be an absolute no brainer.

 

[Diamond Lights]

I was really supportive of Frank and really thought hey he might not take us super high but he'll make us super steady. Man was I wrong.

He is so over his head. The football... urgh. The problem is, the opportunities he's recently had he could have made changes. Now he's lost even more to injury he'll probably play it even safer. And Brentford, look at them, proof that the set up is what matters moreso than the Manager.

I dont know who should come in, but i worry we limp on until Summer which isn't advisable either.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Not even close

- Emery is similar age (2 years older), has won 4 Europa Leagues, a French League title, 2 French domestic cups and managed PSG & Arsenal.

If we had a chance to swap Frank for Emery, it would be an absolute no brainer.

Emery is the best manager in the league at the moment by quite some distance. He gets every ounce out of everything at his disposal.

 

[Raziel]

Emery is the best manager in the league at the moment by quite some distance. He gets every ounce out of everything at his disposal.

And the Scum had a chance to give that guy 1.2B+ but chose lego head instead ..

Lesson about how easy it is to either stick with or fire the wrong guy

 

[Gutter Boy]

And the Scum had a chance to give that guy 1.2B+ but chose lego head instead ..

Lesson about how easy it is to either stick with or fire the wrong guy

Thankfully that decision saved us from them winning probably 2 EPL titles

 

[SpurMeUp]

Not even close

- Emery is similar age (2 years older), has won 4 Europa Leagues, a French League title, 2 French domestic cups and managed PSG & Arsenal.

If we had a chance to swap Frank for Emery, it would be an absolute no brainer.

Flavour of the month. Previously it was Slot. And tomorrow someone else. Emery wasn’t finishing in the CL places instantly. Despite the club signing some of the best talent and spending £700m, it took him 2 years.

Instead of drawing the most basic of conclusions from where teams are today, isn’t it wiser to look at individual managers underlying qualities and factor in the quality of players at their disposal?

 

[Raziel]

Flavour of the month. Previously it was Slot. And tomorrow someone else. Emery wasn’t finishing in the CL places instantly. Despite the club signing some of the best talent and spending £700m, it took him 2 years.

Instead of drawing the most basic of conclusions from where teams are today, isn’t it wiser to look at individual managers underlying qualities and factor in the quality of players at their disposal?

Emery is different, and he didn't buy top talent, he often used cast offs from big clubs (yes, expensive wages) and he has improved year over year. The thing with Emery is he's old school, he wants control.

Don't disagree with the looking for specific qualities, I think the piece you have to consider is how much time a manager is given is often related to reputation (not saying it's fair), lets say you find someone that underlying qualities may indicate he's better than Emery, he would still get less time before fans, media, boo boys piled on just because one can say "here is my prior accomplishments"

 

[Lemonade Money]

His position was well known re Scum, when you interview people one of the simplest questions you have to come away with is "does this person want this job or a job", hence my earlier comment re sniff test, and we should also be aware of if others really are at the table.

You don't think the first question our agent asked his agent, was 'would Eze be interested in joining Spurs'?
According to Eze, he did want our job, and nobody else was 'at the table' until he made a call.

'I was prepared to go to Tottenham' - New Arsenal man Eberechi Eze opens up on Spurs snub after dramatic transfer U-turn | Goal.com UK

Arsenal's Eberechi Eze has shared that he was ready to sign for the Gunners' rivals Tottenham Hotspur before a call with Mikel Arteta sealed his move to the red side of north London. The former Crystal Palace star had agreed a move to Spurs, but when Arsenal swooped for his signature at the last...

www.goal.com

 

[Raziel]

You don't think the first question our agent asked his agent, was 'would Eze be interested in joining Spurs'?
According to Eze, he did want our job, and nobody else was 'at the table' until he made a call.

'I was prepared to go to Tottenham' - New Arsenal man Eberechi Eze opens up on Spurs snub after dramatic transfer U-turn | Goal.com UK

Arsenal's Eberechi Eze has shared that he was ready to sign for the Gunners' rivals Tottenham Hotspur before a call with Mikel Arteta sealed his move to the red side of north London. The former Crystal Palace star had agreed a move to Spurs, but when Arsenal swooped for his signature at the last...

www.goal.com

Mate, it was reported widely before we started that he was an Arsenal man, of course he and his agent will say whatever brick makes sense for them.

Companies pay people a lot of money to sift through flimflam, and the fact that he was always going to make that call is both fudging unprofessional and a lack of experience on our side.