Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[Bedfordspurs]

Well, the good news is that we straight away have a big away game.

Let's see if he and the players can give us something to be proud of.
It might be another loss, but if it's one that shows something to hang onto (like some good attacking play and link-ups between the likes of Xavi, Odobert and Muani - and some actual shots on goal!) then that will hopefully give us some hope..


Another meek loss with hardly a shot however....

Out of interest, who would start in our next two games vs PSG away and home vs Fulham?

fudge knows
I’d be having a big conversation around who trusts the process
I think that will be telling
And I’d say we’re playing this way for the next 10 games no matter what
Convince them
Show them why it will work
And ding make excuses
Right now I don’t see any respect for him and he looks like he has lost some of the squad
I don’t want another change so anything he can do to keep himself afloat I’m all for

 

[glorygloryeze]

fudge knows
I’d be having a big conversation around who trusts the process
I think that will be telling
And I’d say we’re playing this way for the next 10 games no matter what
Convince them
Show them why it will work
And ding make excuses
Right now I don’t see any respect for him and he looks like he has lost some of the squad
I don’t want another change so anything he can do to keep himself afloat I’m all for

Why do you think he's lost some of the squad? The Spence and MVDV snub after the Chelsea game?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Why do you think he's lost some of the squad? The Spence and MVDV snub after the Chelsea game?

You not seen the Vic post match
Not the first time
The Chelsea ones are of a similar ilk I guess

 

[glorygloryeze]

You not seen the Vic post match
Not the first time
The Chelsea ones are of a similar ilk I guess

No, what did Vic do/say?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

No, what did Vic do/say?

He isn’t happy
I’ll leave it there because you need to see it and hear it

 

[El Dante]

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This is what happens when you don’t coach attacking play
You end up with custom and fear, just in case
And it’s not new

That happened at the end of the first half too. We had a minute on the clock but rather than trying to be bold and use it to attack, we passed the ball backwards and sideways. We had one minute, yes, maybe we don’t score but we should be desperate to get the ball forward in that situation.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Is it True Thomas Frank said something in an interview to the effect of "who" when asked about Eze?
Hopefully that was just the media/press being crafty by chopping up answers and putting them together to make it look like Frank said that..

However, if Frank genuinely did say something to that effect...oh boy...

Talk about tempting fate eh!!

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[El Dante]

He isn’t happy
I’ll leave it there because you need to see it and hear it

He isn’t happy at all and seems agitated with how the team performed. He cares for how we do and how we perform. The question could be asked whether others care as deeply.

 

[El Dante]

Talk about tempting fate eh!!

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You just know that will be included within a created video. A video that starts with that clip and then shows Eze’s hattrick. Opened himself up to that one sadly.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

It's not looking good...and i think Frank has it worse than many of his predecessors because he has little breathing space: we have never had a new coach start a new season with us in the CL. I still maintain if he/we had EL there'd be more wriggle room to try youngsters, different formations etc and that might help ease some of the pressure in the long-run.

That said, Frank HAS to show some coaching acumen to build some varied attacking patterns: just hoofing it long to the likes of Richarlison is not good enough.

One thing i will say: if it turns out that Frank is out of his depth at our level of club (whatever you think that is/may be) i think it says a lot that we sacked a manager who won us a major European trophy (not that i had a problem with Ange being sacked, i think he HAD to go but with as much gratitude as possible for breaking our trophy drought) and then replaced him with the manager at a club of Brentford's level and you could say that is a massive jump, bigger then the jump from, say, Southampton. You would usually a replacement to at least be someone who is used to juggling multiple competitions, including a European one, maybe specifically someone with decent CL tournament experience actually....

Your last point is a really interesting one. I happen to be one of the people that would have given Ange this season, but when you think about the fact that we sacked our European trophy winning manager, you’d have to expect that we’re doing that because we’re damn sure that the replacement is going to be a definite improvement, a seamless fit, and probably not someone that needs a season himself to find his feet at this level.

I like Frank. I can see what he is trying to do and I don’t think his intention is for it to look as bad as it does out there. Something is not clicking. That said, it is is his job to make it click, and it’s a fair question to ask A, whether he’s ready for this level, these egos, these expectations. And B, whether he has the force of personality to change the culture of a club our size, to really get the players to buy into his way, especially when many of that squad showed the two seasons before that they were happily behind a manager who created an entirely different culture.

It was about this time of the season that it started really clicking for Poch, and we’d shortly demolish Chelsea over the Christmas period. I think the potential difference is, Poch clearly had the force of personality, and he had a vision that his players would buy into. Frank is clearly highly regarded as a coach within the game, but I think it’s an open question as to whether he’s right for our club, our context, players, expectations etc.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

You just know that will be included within a created video. A video that starts with that clip and then shows Eze’s hattrick. Opened himself up to that one sadly.

I feel for him here. It’s Frank being a nice guy in the press conferences, basically sharing a ‘dad joke’ and trying to bring humour to a situation that could have been seen as embarrassing for Spurs.

Footballers are weird though, and known to take absolute non-slights as excuses for motivation. So maybe that’s what Eze did here. I’d rather our manager feel comfortable being a nice guy and being willing to have a harmless joke though.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Your last point is a really interesting one. I happen to be one of the people that would have given Ange this season, but when you think about the fact that we sacked our European trophy winning manager, you’d have to expect that we’re doing that because we’re damn sure that the replacement is going to be a definite improvement, a seamless fit, and probably not someone that needs a season himself to find his feet at this level.

I like Frank. I can see what he is trying to do and I don’t think his intention is for it to look as bad as it does out there. Something is not clicking. That said, it is is his job to make it click, and it’s a fair question to ask A, whether he’s ready for this level, these egos, these expectations. And B, whether he has the force of personality to change the culture of a club our size, to really get the players to buy into his way, especially when many of that squad showed the two seasons before that they were happily behind a manager who created an entirely different culture.

It was about this time of the season that it started really clicking for Poch, and we’d shortly demolish Chelsea over the Christmas period. I think the potential difference is, Poch clearly had the force of personality, and he had a vision that his players would buy into. Frank is clearly highly regarded as a coach within the game, but I think it’s an open question as to whether he’s right for our club, our context, players, expectations etc.

Yes, fair questions.

The difference again is that Frank is taking over a club who are in the CL whilst Poch was taking over club in the EL: Frank has less wriggle room so yeah the question of gravitas to handle the elevated pressure comes into it.
Poch also had a striker who was starting to be the envy of the league...Frank doesn't have that and goals change games (and can cover up a multitude of since to give that often crucial breathing space to sort out other issues on the pitch).

If it turns out that Frank hasn't the gravitas to handle our current situation then we have to look more at the club and how over a decade or more they have squandered our good positions to push on.
When you have won a trophy that got you the golden ticket to get into the CL, do you hire a Frank if you have more prestigious options? I don't think so and i think over the last decade the hierarchy's actions has meant our standing amongst the best coaches has plummeted.

Hopefully Frank can turn things around enough to make this an academic thought. Imagine, if we;d held one a minute longer vs PSG in August, eh? Sigh...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That happened at the end of the first half too. We had a minute on the clock but rather than trying to be bold and use it to attack, we passed the ball backwards and sideways. We had one minute, yes, maybe we don’t score but we should be desperate to get the ball forward in that situation.

I’m beyond words for how people are watching this and other games and seeing a semblance of progress

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yes, fair questions.

The difference again is that Frank is taking over a club who are in the CL whilst Poch was taking over club in the EL: Frank has less wriggle room so yeah the question of gravitas to handle the elevated pressure comes into it.
Poch also had a striker who was starting to be the envy of the league...Frank doesn't have that and goals change games (and can cover up a multitude of since to give that often crucial breathing space to sort out other issues on the pitch).

If it turns out that Frank hasn't the gravitas to handle our current situation then we have to look more at the club and how over a decade or more they have squandered our good positions to push on.
When you have won a trophy that got you the golden ticket to get into the CL, do you hire a Frank if you have more prestigious options? I don't think so and i think over the last decade the hierarchy's actions has meant our standing amongst the best coaches has plummeted.

Hopefully Frank can turn things around enough to make this an academic thought. Imagine, if we;d held one a minute longer vs PSG in August, eh? Sigh...

I wanted frank
He is a good coach but you never know how they adapt
He had a long time in stable set up that had much much less pressure at Brentford
What I’ve liked about him is his flexibility in the past. We have barely seen that but because he has now backed himself into a bad place he can’t do that anymore (and for me it could be as simple as NOT playing 2 DMs in front of a cautious back 4)
His post match comments today and his reaction on the sides were that of a man really feeling the pressure. He need to build something to direct that to, so if we have a few slip ups he can say trust me
Wednesday could be really bad but it’s PSG
Today was bad as I’ve ever seen us play and we did better when we had worse players which says a lot. In ft the lack of homegrown in our yea, stands out so much in these games
Fulham at home is a must win

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Your last point is a really interesting one. I happen to be one of the people that would have given Ange this season, but when you think about the fact that we sacked our European trophy winning manager, you’d have to expect that we’re doing that because we’re damn sure that the replacement is going to be a definite improvement, a seamless fit, and probably not someone that needs a season himself to find his feet at this level.

I like Frank. I can see what he is trying to do and I don’t think his intention is for it to look as bad as it does out there. Something is not clicking. That said, it is is his job to make it click, and it’s a fair question to ask A, whether he’s ready for this level, these egos, these expectations. And B, whether he has the force of personality to change the culture of a club our size, to really get the players to buy into his way, especially when many of that squad showed the two seasons before that they were happily behind a manager who created an entirely different culture.

It was about this time of the season that it started really clicking for Poch, and we’d shortly demolish Chelsea over the Christmas period. I think the potential difference is, Poch clearly had the force of personality, and he had a vision that his players would buy into. Frank is clearly highly regarded as a coach within the game, but I think it’s an open question as to whether he’s right for our club, our context, players, expectations etc.

Poch also had players who got Tottenham and trusted him (Mason and Kane for a start)
I dont see that here at the moment

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Yes, fair questions.

The difference again is that Frank is taking over a club who are in the CL whilst Poch was taking over club in the EL: Frank has less wriggle room so yeah the question of gravitas to handle the elevated pressure comes into it.
Poch also had a striker who was starting to be the envy of the league...Frank doesn't have that and goals change games (and can cover up a multitude of since to give that often crucial breathing space to sort out other issues on the pitch).

If it turns out that Frank hasn't the gravitas to handle our current situation then we have to look more at the club and how over a decade or more they have squandered our good positions to push on.
When you have won a trophy that got you the golden ticket to get into the CL, do you hire a Frank if you have more prestigious options? I don't think so and i think over the last decade the hierarchy's actions has meant our standing amongst the best coaches has plummeted.

Hopefully Frank can turn things around enough to make this an academic thought. Imagine, if we;d held one a minute longer vs PSG in August, eh? Sigh...

Yeah, all very fair, and what’s interesting is that the shortlist was basically leaked in January - it was Frank. Silva and Iraola. So it wasn’t as if we were going for someone with deep CL experience. We then qualified which was a bonus, but yeah…surely we aren’t sacking our trophy winning manager for someone that can’t immediately handle the rigours of the elite schedule?

I’ve just read Frank’s post game transcript, and I must say I think the journos are doing him a disservice a bit. Constant questions about whether 5 at the back sent a message to the players that we were going to be too passive, I don’t agree with that. I don’t think Frank wanted it to be that bad in possession. You can be really fluid and attacking playing 3 cbs as we often were under Poch. I think he wanted to see something more like the PSG game. But the issue is, the players are not getting it.

With the pressure on, at the elite level, the theory has to be able to be put into practice. The players aren’t doing it. I don’t know exactly why that is. But they are not pressing in the right moments. They are not passing out through pressure in the right way. There is a total disconnect. It is not about the formation, because you can play attacking or defensive with any set up, and football is a game where it’s all connected. But something is disconnected right now. I think it’s:

A: players not understanding
B: players not buying in
C: Frank not communicating his ideas well enough

And I suspect in reality it’s a combination of A and B.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I wanted frank
He is a good coach but you never know how they adapt
He had a long time in stable set up that had much much less pressure at Brentford
What I’ve liked about him is his flexibility in the past. We have barely seen that but because he has now backed himself into a bad place he can’t do that anymore (and for me it could be as simple as NOT playing 2 DMs in front of a cautious back 4)
His post match comments today and his reaction on the sides were that of a man really feeling the pressure. He need to build something to direct that to, so if we have a few slip ups he can say trust me
Wednesday could be really bad but it’s PSG
Today was bad as I’ve ever seen us play and we did better when we had worse players which says a lot. In ft the lack of homegrown in our yea, stands out so much in these games
Fulham at home is a must win

He definitely has to go on the attack a bit more now.
It is indeed amazing that we conceded as many today at their place as we did in two seasons under Ange....but tbf, this is likely the best Arsenal squad since when the first season they nicked Cambell off us...we have lost by more if under Ange, so maybe when the dust settles and pain subsides (partially) it will dawn on us that Arsenal could have done that to anyone today with an extra motivated Eze....sigh, next summer could be horrid!

Fulham is now an absolue must-win as you say

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Poch also had players who got Tottenham and trusted him (Mason and Kane for a start)
I dont see that here at the moment

I think having some key lieutenants trusting in the vision is really crucial. Mason and Kane, which then filters into the dynamics around the squad like Bentaleb, Rose, Walker, Dier, Townsend. Add Jan into that who finally had a manager who could get the best out of him after his feud with Sherwood. But you basically had a bunch of players who saw in Poch someone who would get the best out of them. They gave him that buy in. They believed in the vision. Poch gave them the opportunity. And it all happily aligned too with the ethos of the club.

We need something similar to happen here. Who is going to look at Frank and feel he’ll take them to another level? I think he’ll get / is getting great buy in from Pahlinha, Porro, Odobert, and that’s about it. Obviously Bentancur too. But is that where most of the squad is at? Especially the more influential players? What does Romero think? What does Micky think? What does Vicario think? Kulusevski has been out, but would be very interesting to know what he thinks. Surely a very Frank player, so a big miss, but would he be a key lieutenant for him coming back?