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The Youth Players/On-Loan Thread 2017/18

glasgowspur said:
I don't mind him at all, very much in the 'he does a job' camp.
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Back on topic, I think the squad challenge for Poch is Sissoko is actually above mediocre in somethings. In a Top Trumps world his strength, speed, ball carrying in an open game are real attributes. Scara will outline his low score attributes :)
 
SpurMeUp said:
It's vital we clear out senior players who are average so there is room for young players to contribute - as Winks did. Problem is a player like Sissoko is useful. Youth players don't tend to come with his physicality and speed. But do offer other attributes. GKN blocked Edwards, and you could argue Sissoko blocked a youth prospect, and neither have long term futures here. So its vital we clear mediocre players out the squad if we can to continue giving youth players some time to play.
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After the last 3 seasons I would happily start next season without a senior striker, give Sterling or Griffiths that chance.

Sissoko does have pace and physicality to his advantage but I would happily see the back of him and promote Oakley-Booth to bit part player while hopefully give Onomah a prem loan in his preffered defensive midfield position.

I would have seen no difference between having Walker-Peters ahead of Aurier who has pace but not a great deal else. W-P might have bad games(cant have any worse then Aurier) but he has shown he has talent so give him a chance and use that money elsewhere.

Totally agree about some senior players blocking paths.

Slightly off topic but still youth players I see the is rumours of Brewster wanting out of Liverpool, no surprise because with the attackers they have up there he is behind even Solanke. So maybe if we do sell Llorente and loan out Janssen again we could get him and he would come if he saw he was going to play games.

He looked really good last summer a natural goal scorer with good pace and movement, he is now the striker I want most for this summer ahead of Brerton. Really think we should be looking at the English market not for nationalistic reasons but turning previous accepted thought on its head I think it offers the best value for money.
 
SpurMeUp said:
It's vital we clear out senior players who are average so there is room for young players to contribute - as Winks did. Problem is a player like Sissoko is useful. Youth players don't tend to come with his physicality and speed. But do offer other attributes. GKN blocked Edwards, and you could argue Sissoko blocked a youth prospect, and neither have long term futures here. So its vital we clear mediocre players out the squad if we can to continue giving youth players some time to play.
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Edwards blocked Edwards. If he cannot get past a placeholder like GKN, then he is never going to make it. I am sure that he would've got more chances if he had knuckled down.
 
milo said:
Edwards blocked Edwards. If he cannot get past a placeholder like GKN, then he is never going to make it. I am sure that he would've got more chances if he had knuckled down.
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Conjecture. Point is, with no GKN, a place is free for a youth player. That may have been Edwards or whoever deserved the place. Or GKN didn't deserve a chance?

I don't buy this Edwards doesn't knuckle down narrative. He's a teenager sure, maybe has some attitude, or apprehensions who doesn't? If we'd needed him, Poch would have got into him, got him focused.

From what I saw of Edwards he would have offered a lot more than GKN last season coming on as a sub. If GKN was not there, Edwards would have had more chance of minutes imo. Players may have an attitude or be angles but if there are multi-million pound player assets in the way, it will slow their progress into the first team.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Conjecture. Point is, with no GKN, a place is free for a youth player. That may have been Edwards or whoever deserved the place. Or GKN didn't deserve a chance?

I don't buy this Edwards doesn't knuckle down narrative. He's a teenager sure, maybe has some attitude, or apprehensions who doesn't? If we'd needed him, Poch would have got into him, got him focused.

From what I saw of Edwards he would have offered a lot more than GKN last season coming on as a sub. If GKN was not there, Edwards would have had more chance of minutes imo. Players may have an attitude or be angles but if there are multi-million pound player assets in the way, it will slow their progress into the first team.
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Conjecture it may be but two managers have alluded to the same problem.
 
Much as I want to see our young players come through, I can't see any chance of Onomah making it. It's all to easy to blame Bruce and everyone else and say he's not been helped at Villa, that's not Bruce's job his aim is to get Villa promoted and if Onomah can't see he needs to force his way into the team he doesn't have the drive you need. He just doesn't seem to realise you don't make a career by being king of the kids, you have to be able to play against men and at a higher tempo. That attitude will hold him back in british football and I cant see many european teams wanting him. His future is in his own hands and like Edwards if he does make it it will be his fault. If he played for Liverpool or United people would be saying hes ability has been over hyped.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
Much as I want to see our young players come through, I can't see any chance of Onomah making it. It's all to easy to blame Bruce and everyone else and say he's not been helped at Villa, that's not Bruce's job his aim is to get Villa promoted and if Onomah can't see he needs to force his way into the team he doesn't have the drive you need. He just doesn't seem to realise you don't make a career by being king of the kids, you have to be able to play against men and at a higher tempo. That attitude will hold him back in british football and I cant see many european teams wanting him. His future is in his own hands and like Edwards if he does make it it will be his fault. If he played for Liverpool or United people would be saying hes ability has been over hyped.
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I could see us selling him this summer but in his defence, he's largely been played out of position again and Bruce's football doesn't really play to his strengths.
 
milo said:
I could see us selling him this summer but in his defence, he's largely been played out of position again and Bruce's football doesn't really play to his strengths.
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You're probably right, but how many teams would buy a young player who needs the team to play for him rather than the other way round?
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
He just needs to start CM really, not much else.
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To play there you need to be trusted, obviously nobody trust him, why? He needs to prove he can do it, managers get the sack, players rarely. There is far too much belief in his ability based on very little evidence. As a youth player he dominated games, now when I see him he wanders through games, I don't buy he's not playing where he's best, few managers are going to pick a player to play out of position unless they are desperate.
 
For me, and this has been the case for a couple of seasons now, his ability is not in question - he certainly has plenty.

Its his attitude/mentality/call it what you will.

He is, at this point, a bit of a Jenas to me. Too nice, not strong enough to impose himself.
 
Totally get the point about managers not trusting him, even our own Poch. I just don’t get it though, performances at CM vs AM are so markedly different.

But they are definitely seeing some reason not to play him there.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
To play there you need to be trusted, obviously nobody trust him, why? He needs to prove he can do it, managers get the sack, players rarely. There is far too much belief in his ability based on very little evidence. As a youth player he dominated games, now when I see him he wanders through games, I don't buy he's not playing where he's best, few managers are going to pick a player to play out of position unless they are desperate.
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I don't think that it is fair to say that no one trusts him in central midfield. He's played there for England U21s and in our youth set up. He's found it hard to break into our first team but there is some very strong competition there. At Villa he is playing for a manager who tends to play a direct, physical game. Someone will take a chance on him because there could be a good player in there given chances, in the right environment.
 
milo said:
I don't think that it is fair to say that no one trusts him in central midfield. He's played there for England U21s and in our youth set up. He's found it hard to break into our first team but there is some very strong competition there. At Villa he is playing for a manager who tends to play a direct, physical game. Someone will take a chance on him because there could be a good player in there given chances, in the right environment.
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It think I'm being more than fair, what you do in age limit football has nothing to do with 1st team league football, its an indication of possibilities, you have to make things happen, I've played football with ex England youth players, they were good, but not good enough. Omomah is over rated by many who have only seen short cameos. I've never anything in him that makes me think he'll make it with us, I hope I'm wrong.
 
Still very young for a central/deep midfielder. How would Dembele have looked at 20/21 in that role in the PL or Championship? Carrick was 23 when we signed iirc him and at 21 there were similar questions about what his best position was and if he could play that deeper midfield role.

Time will tell if Onomah steps up to our level, but there's still time for him to do that.
 
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