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The Squad

braineclipse said:
But are they better than what we already have and are they more likely to make an immediate impact than the players we already have?

We've seen Chadli go to WBA and become one of their best players, he struggled to get in our team. I think if Son had gone to Southampton he would have been a massive hit, yet he's one of those we turn to from the bench most of the time.

It's also not just about players being "good enough", it's about them fitting our system. Part of the reason (I think) that Gabbiadini looks good for Southampton is that he's a good fit for them. We need players that fit our system well.
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We're in a tricky position transfer wise. We're becoming a top (and attractive) team. But we cannot pay big fees and wages.
So, in relation to forwards, if someone has a good season clubs will start to notice, buy then and they will cost a fair bit but also still carry a big chunk of risk (igahlo, benteke, vardy, Lambert, VJ). If they have a second season banging them in then it's goodbye to any chances of us signing them.

Kane has saved us £80+m but has also limited the appeal for a forward to join us as they'll clearly be second string.
We may have to look for a youngster (like dembele was, or inneacho from city ) so they're prepared to bide their time.

I don't think Poch has given up on VJ, imo when he said he 'must show more' it was relating to work they have done with him (to improve his game) rather than VJ himself just putting in more effort (which I don't think he lacks btw).

As a complete alternative I wouldn't be against JD knocking around the place, if that's not considered a step backwards?
 
NaijaSpurs said:
I thought that was a given
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But unless Gabbiadini would have been a good fit for us that example hardly points towards affordable players being out there that would be good signings for us at this point.

We've gotten to where we are (second in the league under Pochettino) in part by being quite strict about signing and keeping players that fit our system well. I would rather have us sign no one than see us sign another player that isn't a good fit.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
We're in a tricky position transfer wise. We're becoming a top (and attractive) team. But we cannot pay big fees and wages.
So, in relation to forwards, if someone has a good season clubs will start to notice, buy then and they will cost a fair bit but also still carry a big chunk of risk (igahlo, benteke, vardy, Lambert, VJ). If they have a second season banging them in then it's goodbye to any chances of us signing them.

Kane has saved us £80+m but has also limited the appeal for a forward to join us as they'll clearly be second string.
We may have to look for a youngster (like dembele was, or inneacho from city ) so they're prepared to bide their time.

I don't think Poch has given up on VJ, imo when he said he 'must show more' it was relating to work they have done with him (to improve his game) rather than VJ himself just putting in more effort (which I don't think he lacks btw).

As a complete alternative I wouldn't be against JD knocking around the place, if that's not considered a step backwards?
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I really don't think JD would be a good fit for our system.

I think people overestimate how easy it is to sign an affordable striker that fits our system, wants to sign for us, is happy to be second choice, has the right amount of both current ability and potential and is likely to hit the ground running.
 
braineclipse said:
But unless Gabbiadini would have been a good fit for us that example hardly points towards affordable players being out there that would be good signings for us at this point.
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On the other hand the fact that we did not sign him or any other striker does not mean he or any other striker is not good for our system. Otherwise one could argue that the only player that was good our for system last summer was Janssen
 
braineclipse said:
I really don't think JD would be a good fit for our system.

I think people overestimate how easy it is to sign an affordable striker that fits our system, wants to sign for us, is happy to be second choice, has the right amount of both current ability and potential and is likely to hit the ground running.
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I agree completely, it's got to be the hardest thing to shop for. Especially with the remit you describe.

That's why I said JD, he's obviously not a long term solution and doesn't tick all the boxes but he ticks some vital ones.
We're probably pushing teams back too far for it to suit him but there would be games and times where at least it would be someone we d think could get us a goal.

I suppose both VJ and Soldado have just jaded us supporters a little.
 
Grays_1890 said:
He has no record of being a top scorer for long, so lets hold off on the Hype just yet.
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When you scout a player live numerous times and can see how he plays in the flesh that can be more valuable than stats. Heck both Janssen and Soldado had great goal scoring stats. Sure Gabbiadini did not but then he has not always played as a striker. Ironically he spent most of his career as a backup.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
True

But will it last

Let's see

Impressive so far
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One reason I thought mentioned him is because Southampton seem to have a very good scouting system and seem to be able to acquire players from outside England with a lot of potential without breaking the bank. Players like Wanayama, Mane, Schneiderlin, Virgil van Dijk and Toby all spring to mind and they seem to work in synergy with the impressive youth system. Maybe Manolo Gabbiadini is another one to join the conveyor belt
 
NaijaSpurs said:
On the other hand the fact that we did not sign him or any other striker does not mean he or any other striker is not good for our system. Otherwise one could argue that the only player that was good our for system last summer was Janssen
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That's obviously not what I'm arguing.

NaijaSpurs said:
When you scout a player live numerous times and can see how he plays in the flesh that can be more valuable than stats. Heck both Janssen and Soldado had great goal scoring stats. Sure Gabbiadini did not but then he has not always played as a striker. Ironically he spent most of his career as a backup.
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Sure, those are different sources of information. Along with others I expect our transfer committee to make a good decision based on all the information available.

How is this Gabbiadini reaction different to all the other players that have had a hot start to their PL career only to then turn out to be mediocre?

There are 19 other PL clubs, most of them sign a handful of players every season. Some of them start off really well despite not being all that awesome. I don't think that should influence our transfer strategy.
 
braineclipse said:
There are 19 other PL clubs, most of them sign a handful of players every season. Some of them start off really well despite not being all that awesome. I don't think that should influence our transfer strategy.
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Alternatively some players start off well and go the distance.
 
NaijaSpurs said:
One reason I thought mentioned him is because Southampton seem to have a very good scouting system and seem to be able to acquire players from outside England with a lot of potential without breaking the bank. Players like Wanayama, Mane, Schneiderlin, Virgil van Dijk and Toby all spring to mind and they seem to work in synergy with the impressive youth system. Maybe Manolo Gabbiadini is another one to join the conveyor belt
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Well for me wanyama and van Dijk would have been impressive if they hadn't been signed from Scotland for big money in reality

Mane was a player I mentioned on here before they signed him due to his assist and be goals return for red bull

Schneiderlain is great scouting as he was signed young.

Toby was signed on loan from a top European side again and was proven

I think their youth system is over rated personally and is on par with ours at best

None have stepped up other than bale to meet the hype put on them IMO
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Well for me wanyama and van Dijk would have been impressive if they hadn't been signed from Scotland for big money in reality

Mane was a player I mentioned on here before they signed him due to his assist and be goals return for red bull

Schneiderlain is great scouting as he was signed young.

Toby was signed on loan from a top European side again and was proven
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WAs £12.5 m for Wanyama and £13m for van Dijk really big money? I am not so sure. Besides it is one thing to identify a quality player it is another to get the deal done
 
Just a reset on the overall squad conversation

First 11 is very good - Lloris, Walker, Toby, Dier, Jan, Rose, Wanyama, Dembele, Eriksen, Dele, Kane
Bench is limited - Vorm, Winks, Son the only viable alternatives

- Lamela is the interesting unknown when he returns and how he will fit in the 3-5-2 setup (which seems like 1st choice)
- Weakness is obvious - No cover/option for either Kane or Eriksen, nobody really different on bench
- Poch has played with idea of pacey wingers/wing forwards, but has never stuck with one, so be interesting on if we try to buy another one this summer.

Summer for me could go a couple of ways
- Try for additional striker, swap a few squad players for some "new potentials". Go for incremental improvements on results
- Go for a WC player, someone who could push the squad up another level. Actually push hard for trophy, title contention.

I know everyone will say we have no president for trying option 2, however we have not been in top 4 for majority of season, two seasons in a row before under Levy, and line of sight for additional revenue is there.
 
Raziel said:
Just a reset on the overall squad conversation

First 11 is very good - Lloris, Walker, Toby, Dier, Jan, Rose, Wanyama, Dembele, Eriksen, Dele, Kane
Bench is limited - Vorm, Winks, Son the only viable alternatives

- Lamela is the interesting unknown when he returns and how he will fit in the 3-5-2 setup (which seems like 1st choice)
- Weakness is obvious - No cover/option for either Kane or Eriksen, nobody really different on bench
- Poch has played with idea of pacey wingers/wing forwards, but has never stuck with one, so be interesting on if we try to buy another one this summer.

Summer for me could go a couple of ways
- Try for additional striker, swap a few squad players for some "new potentials". Go for incremental improvements on results
- Go for a WC player, someone who could push the squad up another level. Actually push hard for trophy, title contention.

I know everyone will say we have no president for trying option 2, however we have not been in top 4 for majority of season, two seasons in a row before under Levy, and line of sight for additional revenue is there.
Click to expand...

I think Lamela would/could be used to compete with Eriksen in the 343 system. If one of them is always on the field, then we will always have some guile and vision at the sharp end of the pitch.
 
Raziel said:
Just a reset on the overall squad conversation

First 11 is very good - Lloris, Walker, Toby, Dier, Jan, Rose, Wanyama, Dembele, Eriksen, Dele, Kane
Bench is limited - Vorm, Winks, Son the only viable alternatives

- Lamela is the interesting unknown when he returns and how he will fit in the 3-5-2 setup (which seems like 1st choice)
- Weakness is obvious - No cover/option for either Kane or Eriksen, nobody really different on bench
- Poch has played with idea of pacey wingers/wing forwards, but has never stuck with one, so be interesting on if we try to buy another one this summer.

Summer for me could go a couple of ways
- Try for additional striker, swap a few squad players for some "new potentials". Go for incremental improvements on results
- Go for a WC player, someone who could push the squad up another level. Actually push hard for trophy, title contention.

I know everyone will say we have no president for trying option 2, however we have not been in top 4 for majority of season, two seasons in a row before under Levy, and line of sight for additional revenue is there.
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Trump will come and make Spurs great again!

Joking aside I think improving the squad will not be easy without pushing the boat out (a long way).
 
Rorschach said:
Trump will come and make Spurs great again!

Joking aside I think improving the squad will not be easy without pushing the boat out (a long way).
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Best way to improve the squad is by improving the team. Our signing of Wanyama did that this season as he is a better player than Dier. IMO we can upgrade on Dier again (this time by getting a top class right sided centre half). Dier then becomes an excellent cover player for either position.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Best way to improve the squad is by improving the team. Our signing of Wanyama did that this season as he is a better player than Dier. IMO we can upgrade on Dier again (this time by getting a top class right sided centre half). Dier then becomes an excellent cover player for either position.
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For me CB is an area we don't need to focus on too much right now considering the relative strength in depth we have there. Neither Dier nor Wimmer are perfect but both are more than decent, relatively young, and more importantly are indoctrinated into the Poch cult philosophy.

Yes, Dier has come in for some criticism this season, plenty from me when he was stupid and a lot of it warranted to be fair, but another CB of better quality than Dier will almost certainly involve a hefty outlay and good CBs are as rare as hen's teeth. I think the only way to get value in the market now is through the scouting network and doubly so for a club like us. I see average CB's going for ridiculous sums so an improvement on Dier is unlikely and frankly not necessary IMO.

I genuinely think we are at the point now that any improvement to the first 11 will have to be a world class player. In fact it makes me a little giddy to think of it (and that is nothing to do with the four glasses of wine I just had ON A SCHOOL NIGHT). And even then the improvement may only be marginal as the first 11 are that good at the moment. This sounds like hyperbole but I genuinely believe there are only a handful of players better in each position than we have now. If we want to improve the first 11 it will be very difficult and expensive as we have to target those small pool of players better than we have now. If we want to improve the squad then obviously we have more scope there.

(Hey, it is not as long as @DubaiSpur posts)
 
Rorschach said:
For me CB is an area we don't need to focus on too much right now considering the relative strength in depth we have there. Neither Dier nor Wimmer are perfect but both are more than decent, relatively young, and more importantly are indoctrinated into the Poch cult philosophy.

Yes, Dier has come in for some criticism this season, plenty from me when he was stupid and a lot of it warranted to be fair, but another CB of better quality than Dier will almost certainly involve a hefty outlay and good CBs are as rare as hen's teeth. I think the only way to get value in the market now is through the scouting network and doubly so for a club like us. I see average CB's going for ridiculous sums so an improvement on Dier is unlikely and frankly not necessary IMO.

I genuinely think we are at the point now that any improvement to the first 11 will have to be a world class player. In fact it makes me a little giddy to think of it (and that is nothing to do with the four glasses of wine I just had ON A SCHOOL NIGHT). And even then the improvement may only be marginal as the first 11 are that good at the moment. This sounds like hyperbole but I genuinely believe there are only a handful of players better in each position than we have now. If we want to improve the first 11 it will be very difficult and expensive as we have to target those small pool of players better than we have now. If we want to improve the squad then obviously we have more scope there.

(Hey, it is not as long as @DubaiSpur posts)
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If we can get any player who would make our first 11 better then we should buy them irrelevant of their position

I agree that it would need a special player to improve the team

We may find a gem through amazing scouts and good luck but that's getting harder and harder
 
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