The Squad

[NaijaSpurs]

i think Gutter and Naija arent being realistic

for instance what would happen to the fist teamers that went to the bench? would they stay at the club? would they be motivated to play well for a cause? will they effect team morale?

I fail to comprehend on how I am being unrealistic. I have suggested we focus on two types of players, the first type being the kind of player that is better than what we have and would automatically improve us, and the second type be young players (22 and under) that my not necessary be better than what we have right now but most importantly will improve us in the future with their vast potential.

As for players in the first team at the moment I would hope they be good enough and tough enough to rise to the challenge, and not throw their toys out if they lose their place to a better player.

African are you suffering from amnesia because earlier this season it was you who suggested we should go in for Tevez after he had fallen out with Mancini. Ironically I thought the problem would be that he would unstable the squad and probably leave in the summer and then leave us with unhappy strikers. Interestingly you intimated to me that they should rise to the challenge. But I guess you will tell me that you cannot remember that, funny the things you conviently forget, or have you changes your mind which is of course your right?

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I think the key point missed (outside of the OP) when discussing fringe players (and I agree with Naija that has negative connotations) is that they need to be the right type of player to complement the team.

Look at the link in the transfer rumour thread of Swansea wanting GDS. He isnt a glamorous player (at least here) and his reputation seems to have taken a battering. Yet despite his stock being at an all time low Rodgers realises (it seems) that GDS fits the Swansea style of play perfectly - and so as cover/rotation is ideal.

Conversely, with us this season, when Bale, Adebayor or Lennon have been unavailable who have we had of a similar style to bring in? NO ONE.

This is key in so many aspects of managing a team/squad IMHO.

If you have a clearly defined style of play, you should also have clearly defined styles of player for various roles.

If you have these certainties then you have a clear transfer strategy - this has got to make life so much easier.

If you have players that are literally interchangeable you can rotate your players very successfully
Firstly by negating fatigue based injuries
Secondly by maintaining a high level of consistency
and Thirdly by keeping the players happy and much more of a "squad" than "First team/reserve team"

Everything hangs together so much better and more coherently IMHO.

Apologies for hijacking and turning this more toward a management topic, but I think "fringe players" are incredibly important and their treatment indicative of a wider management style

 

[NaijaSpurs]

This. Why would players who are good enough to play for a top four club's first team, suddenly be happy with bench roles?

Maybe they need to decide whether they want to play every week in a Europa Cup team of having to battle for a place in a CL team. Eden Hazard may be joining Emirates Marketing Project, Manure or Chelscum, chances are he will be taking some one else's place unless that player(s) rises to the challenge.

Valencia, Nani and Young rarely ever start together, normally at best 2 of those 3. While we do not have that kind of strength now we need to strive for it if we want to play CL football during the 2013/2014 season

Plus if you continually demote first team members for new players, the wage bill is going to go through the roof.

There is a difference between demoting a player and having a player have to fight for his place. Also there is a lot of young talent around the world that can be got without spending silly money

 

[NaijaSpurs]

And which player are you? O

My bad

 

[NaijaSpurs]

I wouldn't entirely agree with that, quite a few of their positions have backup players who have a lot of potential, but are not yet quality players.

But this is partly due to the amount of money United have to throw around on players who might be the next 'big thing'...


But they are part of a rotation, which is the way to go. I'm just not sure if Redknapp can adjust his thinking that much..

And therein lies the rub

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Id also like to say Im a big fan of our old two tier buying programme, young and for the future as well as quality and for the now.

Particularly as either type of buy suits "fringe player" status (though I still prefer the idea of a squad rather than team + reserves)

 

[NaijaSpurs]

It is vital we get some depth in the wide positions, even keeping townsend would have helped i think.

I

It does not help that he has been a mixture of poor and average while on loan

 

[P.D.]

I think the squad players argument is a good one however Arsenal and Utd both have a tactical system that is drilled into them, although we have a set way of playing I dont think we are as tactically disciplined as them therefore its tougher for our squad players to seamlessly slot in.

That in itself is an argument as to why a more tactical based approach to management may benefit us. I mean for instance are Niko and Pienaar at face value much better or worse than say Gervinho, Park etc. Probably not but its the tactical side that makes them appear worse.

 

[africanspurs]

I fail to comprehend on how I am being unrealistic. I have suggested we focus on two types of players, the first type being the kind of player that is better than what we have and would automatically improve us, and the second type be young players (22 and under) that my not necessary be better than what we have right now but most importantly will improve us in the future with their vast potential.

As for players in the first team at the moment I would hope they be good enough and tough enough to rise to the challenge, and not throw their toys out if they lose their place to a better player.

African are you suffering from amnesia because earlier this season it was you who suggested we should go in for Tevez after he had fallen out with Mancini. Ironically I thought the problem would be that he would unstable the squad and probably leave in the summer and then leave us with unhappy strikers. Interestingly you intimated to me that they should rise to the challenge. But I guess you will tell me that you cannot remember that, funny the things you conviently forget, or have you changes your mind which is of course your right?

i remember saying we should get tevez. definately. i dont remember worrying about the players rising to the challenge though..i dont remember saying that

but yes i said it then and i will say it again. if we can get someone like TEVEZ then we should get him at all cost. thing is though i can appreciate that it will make players a bit touchy but the fact is that to have tevez is to raise the profile of the club , win games and have genuine world class in our front line. if we lose someone because of that then so be it. i know full wel that we would lose someone though, i'm not naive in that context. you buy players to start in a team filled with top class players and those top class players will leave unless you can pay them enough to sit on the bench which we cant

 

[africanspurs]

ts quite amazing to see what ferguson has done

anderson was very much surplus to requirements and was being rumoured to be sold
cleverly though a very talented footballer was hardly awe inspiring at wigan
the brazilian fulbacks dont offer the greatest of technical abilities and arent the best passers
smalling barely had a senior appearance at fulham
park is is an exceptionally hard working team player
Jones was talented but hardly top four or CL material
De gea started of crap
Lindergaard....decent keeper i think..dont know much about him
Hernandez had to prove himself from scratch and came at bargain basement...he just had the right work rate and right attitude
wellbeck a talented player but hardly looked like a CL player
scholes and giggs are both old (though i personally think still world class) but i swear many people would turn their noses up at them if we went after them

but somehow people are convinced that ferguson amassed this great team where everyone is premiership winning CL quality bonafide from the get go "ferguson was like ..."smalling..now there is a title winning young lad. because he showed everything for the 100th time that he DIDNT play for fulham"

No i dont agree with that if i were being truthful. I think that your fringe players if selected and coupled with the right good players then become diamonds themselves in terms of contribution

 

[DanishWhite]

The problem with fringe players is that they want to play. Or should want to.

Therefore you can never keep them for too long, unless they are very young. The better they are and the closer to the first XI, the shorter they are likely to stick around.

Personally I can't believe we held on to Krancjar for so long nor Defoe. In the same breath I'd say it is a credit to Pienaar, that he'd rather go back humbly to Everton than sit on the bench for us. He's the kind of player we should want and perhaps could have kept with a bit more rotation to keep him sharp and hungry for more.

Everyone who'se played teamsport knows the bench is a killer.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

What about the idea of "fringe" players getting regular game time through a well considered selection policy?

 

[P.D.]

I disagree about the bolded bits but I suppose that's another argument alltogether

The point was - I prefer a roation system which offers 2 starters per position (such as Utd's) as opposed to a 15-man core and some bottom feeders on the side

So you mean you would rather have say 20 7/10 players with the odd 8 or 9 as opposed to having 7-9 players at 8/10 with the rest at 5 or 6.

I agree, its a squad game nowadays.

 

[milo]

Look at the link in the transfer rumour thread of Swansea wanting GDS. He isnt a glamorous player (at least here) and his reputation seems to have taken a battering. Yet despite his stock being at an all time low Rodgers realises (it seems) that GDS fits the Swansea style of play perfectly - and so as cover/rotation is ideal.

I think that it is a bit early to comment on what Rodgers may or may not see in Dos Santos. It'll be a risky signing for Swansea, it's not just Redknapp who has struggled to getting Dos Santos to apply himself properly. He's not done much when he has been out on loan in this country and he's done precisely zero in a Spurs shirt. But maybe Rodgers feels that it is risk worth taking, if he could get Dos Santos playing to the best of his ability then he would have one hell of a player on his hands.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I think its pretty obvious GDS suits Swanseas style perfectly - its very easy to see what Rodgers might like in him

 

[NaijaSpurs]

i remember saying we should get tevez. definately. i dont remember worrying about the players rising to the challenge though..i dont remember saying that

Well you did say that, you were the one that changed my mind, you said if they did not like it they could leave.

By the away I agree that Fergie did not build a squad where everyone were excellent players, there has to be a mixture. However even the ones that are not top notch are introduced into the winning mentality of the locker room. Those players have a resilience. Also those top teams have a better team than us and the only way we are able to catch them is with an influx of more quality/potential.

Funny so many pundits said Man utd were poor last season and Emirates Marketing Project were by far the best team in the division, funny that because while they won the league they could only do on goal difference, and that was suppose to be a weak Utd team.

I have suggested we focus on two types of players, the first type being the kind of player that is better than what we have and would automatically improve us, and the second type be young players (22 and under) that my not necessary be better than what we have right now but most importantly will improve us in the future with their vast potential.


anderson was very much surplus to requirements and was being rumoured to be sold
cleverly though a very talented footballer was hardly awe inspiring at wigan
the brazilian fulbacks dont offer the greatest of technical abilities and arent the best passers
smalling barely had a senior appearance at fulham
Jones was talented but hardly top four or CL material
De gea started of crap
Hernandez

Well I would suggest the above mentioned players fall into my second category

 

[milo]

I think its pretty obvious GDS suits Swanseas style perfectly - its very easy to see what Rodgers might like in him

I don't think that anyone doubts his talent or how he could fit into a team that likes to play attacking football. The issue with GDS has always been his attitude to training, his over inflated opinion of his own abilities and his poor performances on the pitch.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

I think that it is a bit early to comment on what Rodgers may or may not see in Dos Santos. It'll be a risky signing for Swansea, it's not just Redknapp who has struggled to getting Dos Santos to apply himself properly. He's not done much when he has been out on loan in this country and he's done precisely zero in a Spurs shirt. But maybe Rodgers feels that it is risk worth taking, if he could get Dos Santos playing to the best of his ability then he would have one hell of a player on his hands.

Yet the last time he started for us (in the FA Cup) he looked our best player on the pitch. It did not help that Harry made it clear that Dos Santos was not for him. Lets be honest, if Benny had not got injured Bale would have gone out on loan to Forrest. Luckily for us Benny got injured and the rest as we know is history

 

[milo]

Yet the last time he started for us (in the FA Cup) he looked our best player on the pitch. It did not help that Harry made it clear that Dos Santos was not for him. Lets be honest, if Benny had not got injured Bale would have gone out on loan to Forrest. Luckily for us Benny got injured and the rest as we know is history

How much emphasis should we place on a performance against Cheltenham? The difference between Bale and GDS is that Bale took his chance when he got it and never caused any problems when he was out of the team.

 

[parklane1]

I don't think that anyone doubts his talent or how he could fit into a team that likes to play attacking football. The issue with GDS has always been his attitude to training, his over inflated opinion of his own abilities and his poor performances on the pitch.

You not what i can not understand about the stories about Dos Santos and his drinking and missing training, every manager except Redknapp has never had a problem with him. While he was at Ipswich with Roy Keane he said he never missed training and was always the first on the pitch an the last off it, Rikkajard said the same about him when he had him on loan.

Now i am not for one minute saying we should keep him because Redknapp obviously does not rate him, but he has talent and it is strange that his behaviour everywhere else has been fine.