Not this season they don't. Chelsea have had no European football and since Conte changed to 3 at the back, they have been able to put out the same team almost game after game. The XI we picked to beat Chelsea at home is our strongest imo, and it has been available to us far less than Chelsea's strongest XI has been to them.
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The Season starts now (post-Anfield)
- Thread starter the dza
- Start date
Not this season they don't. Chelsea have had no European football and since Conte changed to 3 at the back, they have been able to put out the same team almost game after game. The XI we picked to beat Chelsea at home is our strongest imo, and it has been available to us far less than Chelsea's strongest XI has been to them.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Swings and roundabouts mate, needless to say we do not agree on if we are good enough to win the Prem so its best we agree to disagree.
To illustrate what I am saying, here are the league games and results where we have started with a back three of Dier, Toby and Vert:
Hull (h) 3-0 win
Chelsea (h) 2-0 win
West Brom (h) 4-0 win
Stoke (h) 4-0 win
That's it. We didn't just win these games, we dominated them all.
We have played our best football with the 343 this season, with players missing we still managed to get some results, but it was too much to ask the backups in defence to do it against top sides (Emirates Marketing Project away for example). And that is something Chelsea haven't had to do.
Hull (h) 3-0 win
Chelsea (h) 2-0 win
West Brom (h) 4-0 win
Stoke (h) 4-0 win
That's it. We didn't just win these games, we dominated them all.
We have played our best football with the 343 this season, with players missing we still managed to get some results, but it was too much to ask the backups in defence to do it against top sides (Emirates Marketing Project away for example). And that is something Chelsea haven't had to do.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
You do make a good point especially about our defence line ups. I posted elsewhere that we have the best pairing of CB's ( Toby and Jan) yet we have only been able to start them together in 15 of the 37 games we have played this season.
Exactly. Compare to Chelsea, whose first-choice back 3 are Cahill, Luiz, Azpilicueta.
The league game they changed to the back 3, using those players, was Hull away in the 7th league game of the season, the start of their great run of results. Since that game, that back 3 has started every single league game for Chelsea. Also, I believe that they have used the same wing-backs (Moses and Alonso) in every single one of those games too (I'd have to double check that).
THAT is the difference between out teams imo -- luck with injuries and less mid-week fixtures in Europe (8 less) allowing more time to work on their 343 system, with the same players in the back 3 and at wing-back in every game.
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
That's not luck for Chelsea. Obviously you can never account for some taco breaking one of your players legs in a match but they persistently have few injuries, regardless of the season. It's a mixture of the players they buy and I guess the physio and medical teams. Fair play to them.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
Really.... you honestly believe that???
They lost their last Physio for trying to treat a player against the managers wishes
You can have the hardest players in the world but wear and tear kicks in the more you play
Their medical team are hardly unique although I'm sure their high class but they can't stop pkayers getting injuries... purely fix them when they occur and for them this season they have had none pretty much
Right, so it's luck. Toby got a freak injury to his knee when Vertonghen ran into him, Rose got injured in a tackle during a game as just two examples. There is no genius at Chelsea stopping these kind of incidents from happening to them, it is luck.
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
Yeah I do honestly believe that. You've both latched onto one section and ignored the other bit, probably the more important bit, of how injury prone the players may be..
Its why essien could miss most of the season while lampard would carry on, despite receiving the same challenges and playing the same number of matches. It's the reason wanyama is an ever present, while Dembele has to be managed and gets a fee more injuries.
Toby and kane were unlucky. They're not usual injury prone. But hasn't vertonghen for example had the same injury two or three times in the past year? Dembele is hardly man if steel either.
If something happens once or maybe twice, you can put it down to luck. If it happens again and again, perhaps it's not just luck that can be blamed anymore?
Also, we've played eight European ties. So we've played eight more games than them over over a period of 7 months. It's hardly a case of a 60 game season vs a 40 game one.
I never implied that there is some genius at Chelsea stopping injuries with a souped up magical spray. But that perhaps it is more than just luck that has allowed them to maintain a shorter injury list over a sustained period of time.
Anyway, back on topic we've got a good run of home games coming up and I hope to see us in the semis of the fa cup and well placed for the top four after that.
Imo, now we're out of Europe we have no real excuses. We've already picked up a good number if points. Only got man utd and arsenal left to play out of the top six, both at home and the others all have games where they'll be taking points off each other. And the two Manchester clubs will still have Europe to go.
Lets hope we do it again.
None of that alters the fact that to be able to play the same back 3 and the same wing-backs in every single league game is very lucky. Yes, some players are injury prone, so we can't say it's bad luck when Dembele is injured for example. But I am pretty sure that Cahill, Luiz, Azpilicueta, Moses and Alonso have had injuries at some point in their career, even for just a game or two. And yet they have all played every league game for Chelsea since they changed to 343. To say that's not luck is b0ll0cks imo.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
Essien didn't play the same role as lampard IMO. They both played centre mid but lampard was attacking and essien defensive more so in style, essien also had back luck
Similarly before joining us dembele didn't have a bad injury record, but he is playing more games (when fit) and now has a legacy problem. He also gets targeted more as he is more influential to our game than someone like wanyama
Playing once a week like Chelsea gives you rest time and tactical time
After August we played every week twice a week. They didn't!!!
The first time we didn't do that was December so that's 13 weeks of playing twice a week rather than just weekends. It has an impact
Similarly before joining us dembele didn't have a bad injury record, but he is playing more games (when fit) and now has a legacy problem. He also gets targeted more as he is more influential to our game than someone like wanyama
Playing once a week like Chelsea gives you rest time and tactical time
After August we played every week twice a week. They didn't!!!
The first time we didn't do that was December so that's 13 weeks of playing twice a week rather than just weekends. It has an impact
Bullet
Andy Thompson
A couple of weeks ago someone said the Cheatski first team have only missed 2 games in total i.e. on 2 occasions a player missed a game, other than that they have had the same 11 since the start
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
Think that's since the arse game
90291Spur
Paul Walsh
Apparently they have been able to play the same back 6 since the Arse game on Sept 24 or something. I'm not sure how many times we've had our full compliment as Hugo, Alder, Verts and Rose have all been injured this year.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
I thought Sunday was the first time in back it back games we have fielded the same side
90291Spur
Paul Walsh
I thin you're right, but does anyone know how many times we've had our first choice back line (whether it's the back 3 of the back 4)?
Glenda's Legs
Paul Walsh
9 in the PL it would seem (and if you extend your question to include first choice GK as a starter then that goes down to 7).
And of course where we have sustained injuries to those players in-game, the number of times where our first choice back line has featured for the full 90 is further reduced.
http://www.football-lineups.com/team/Tottenham_Hotspur/FA_Premier_League_2016-2017/Campaign/?p=1