*** The Official 'No OOMT for Sheriff?' OMT ***

[onlyme]

Spot on, Sir. As i said against Villa, the players are trying to play like machines and have forget how to play football. Its so wooden and static.

That is an interesting post.

 

[ringo]

There's still room for the players to improve their movement and pass the ball quicker.

We shouldn't ignore the fact that Sheriff pressured us like crazy in the first half. Once their energy levels dropped we had already secured the win and didn't need to get out of second gear. Take away the sloppiness in the first half and it's a comfortable win for us.

It would be interesting to know what they work on in training in the way of moving the ball around.
I don't think the quality of Arsenal's 11 is much different from ours (apart from Ozil) but they zip the ball around regardless of opposition and always have done under Wenger. so it has to be do to with training and coaching, I figure.

 

[indianspur]

Agreed. It amuses me how people often claim other teams park the bus against us. The reality is most of the time they don't. The reality is that our approach play is so laboured that we allow teams to get back into a defensive shape, and because we don't play with any great width we can't get behind them. So when you have a team who are in a defensive shape and you are trying to get through the middle it's very difficult.

Basically, we make life hard for ourselves. On the plus side, the reason why we don't concede goals isn't because we have a super wonderful defence. It's because we keep the ball so well that we defend through possession.

agree totally

thankfully we are winning otherwise there would be some serious pressure building on AVB

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

It would be interesting to know what they work on in training in the way of moving the ball around.
I don't think the quality of Arsenal's 11 is much different from ours (apart from Ozil) but they zip the ball around regardless of opposition and always have done under Wenger. so it has to be do to with training and coaching, I figure.

Wenger also allows his plays freedom to express themselves. AVB prefers a much more tactical unit with players who don't deviate from their instructions too much.

 

[onlyme]

The results HAVE been flattering us though, and that is why there is concern. If a team continues to play well and not get the rub of the green, then sooner or later the results turn positive. The opposite is also true.

Our performances have to improve considerably if we are serious about getting top four this season. And if we aren't capable of top four this season then please AVB for the love of GHod can we at least TRY and play entertaining football?!

I agree with you.

 

[ringo]

Wenger also allows his plays freedom to express themselves. AVB prefers a much more tactical unit with players who don't deviate from their instructions too much.

I think you are right. With Lennon/Lamela/Eriksen you would think they could interchange as they want, and cause a bit of confusion for the defenders, but they - and the defensive midfielders appear to stick closely to some preconceived plan

I think AVB is guilty of over thinking his approach to games, as much as people might have accused Redknapp of underthinking it.

 

[thfcsteff]

a win...but we play such dull football under AVB most of the time. At least it was exciting to watch under Redknapp. I'm waiting for it all to come together under AVB's master plan -but I have feeling this is AVB's master plan.

I know Lamela struggled, but he made three runs forward with the ball looking for a one-two, only to find the ball heading back to the defence rather than on to him.
I've seen both Soldado and Lamela looking for a quick a one-two and not getting it now.

I think this is a key, key sentence.

Consider how these respective players are being used. One is seasoned and ready to deal with the Prem, the other is being nurtured, doubtless conditioned and slowly brought into the squad/side.

Now imagine a day when both are regulars, when Chiriches and Vertonghen are our CBs, when Rose (or even Baines - I know, wishing!) and Walker are our full/wing-backs, when Sandro is our base, when Paulinho and Eriksen/a world class upgrade are in there with Townsend...

Tonight was about being professional, getting the job done, not exerting unnecessary energy and avoiding injuries I personally think.

BTW, and in respect of going back to your key sentence, Soldado is a different class of brain and movement up there. Which is why I genuinely believe that when Lamela's confidence and initiation are up and complete, he will be superb. Probably my only disappointment of tonight would be that the boy was actually far too selfless; he had a few opportunities to go for it, and instead chose to try and play others in. Twice that was to someone who (as you observed) hadn't seen it.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

I agree with you.

I either need to get my eyes tested or take a lie down.....probably both!!! 8-[

 

[indianspur]

Arsanal have mastered the ability to find that incisive ball in between the full back and centre half for one of the attackers to run onto who then plays it across the six yard box or cuts it back to the pen spot for an on rushing teammate................its uncanny how many times they do this and profit from it. This is definitely worked on and perfected in training.

 

[thfcsteff]

Wenger also allows his plays freedom to express themselves. AVB prefers a much more tactical unit with players who don't deviate from their instructions too much.

Arsene Wenger has had, what, 16 years to establish that mandate @ the **** and is, how old, 61? 62?

I do absolutely see the point you're making on one hand, but on the other, we are talking about some very different situations.

 

[IulianSteaua]

No match ratings thread ?

 

[onlyme]

im glad he showed a bit of anger and emotion. I didnt think he had it in him. It will help him during this transitional phase of new club/country/culture

Hope you are right.
I think body language is a great indicator. When he came off AVB went to him and he was OK.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Arsene Wenger has had, what, 16 years to establish that mandate @ the **** and is, how old, 61? 62?

I do absolutely see the point you're making on one hand, but on the other, we are talking about some very different situations.

I know you are AVB's biggest champion, but the same thing happened at Chelsea. Chelsea under AVB, poor to watch. Chelsea under RDM? Exciting to watch.

The basic truth is AVB doesn't set his team up to entertain. He may try to pretend otherwise, but his strategy is the same of Mourinho's original Chelsea side. His ethos is to stifle the opposition, rather than go out and batter the **** out of them.

 

[Robbo]

Perhaps it's just a case of a new mix of players slowly adapting to the framework of AVB's tactics - and once they get the basics of it under their skin, they'll flourish creatively and offensively?

We're doing well, not setting the world alight, but slowly gaining points and winning matches. I wouldn't worry unless we still look as static and creativeless a year from now as we often do now.

(Didn't see the game today, by the way)

 

[onlyme]

Wenger also allows his plays freedom to express themselves. AVB prefers a much more tactical unit with players who don't deviate from their instructions too much.

Interesting post.
It seems every player with a bit of spark seems a bit sidelined. As long as the results keep coming-no problem. But Spurs fans want entertainment as well.

 

[indianspur]

Arsene Wenger has had, what, 16 years to establish that mandate @ the **** and is, how old, 61? 62?

I do absolutely see the point you're making on one hand, but on the other, we are talking about some very different situations.

he took over from Bruce Rioch/Houston, they played horrible football, and within a year and a half the scummers won the PL.......... with exciting football at the core

teams can play attacking/good to watch football and be successful.

 

[thfcsteff]

Agreed. It amuses me how people often claim other teams park the bus against us. The reality is most of the time they don't. The reality is that our approach play is so laboured that we allow teams to get back into a defensive shape, and because we don't play with any great width we can't get behind them. So when you have a team who are in a defensive shape and you are trying to get through the middle it's very difficult.

Basically, we make life hard for ourselves. On the plus side, the reason why we don't concede goals isn't because we have a super wonderful defence. It's because we keep the ball so well that we defend through possession.

I hate to look like an AVB apologist, even more so because as of right now he's not done anything wrong IMO besides the West ham debacle, but I think it is important to consider the three MASSIVE knocks he took this summer in the window and perhaps consider their impact on our season/intended style.

He wanted David Villa badly, lost out at the death. He didn't blink, just got on with it.
He wanted Willian, indeed has wanted him since he arrived, and actually got royally ****ed over in rude fashion. He didn't blink, just got on with it.
The Bale scenario blew up backwards right as we headed to Asia, and besides the disruption, he was finally left without his star man.

Who knows whether our system would've been much different, and who knows? it might all prove to be the best thing that ever happened. But there is little doubt in my mind that Soldado was signed when he thought Bale was staying, and that if you think of a side with the speed of Bale and Lennon plus the movement, instinct and touch of Soldado, married to the return of Sandro (a player who can move the ball on quickly and efficiently) that we would've been breaking with a lot more speed.

I still get the impression this squad is finding it's feet with each other, and that until they settle in a natural groove and click, a synergetic relationship if you will, that we will see a lot more 'possession' football as it is better to not lose the ball than to gamble when you're not sure what you're doing.

One thing I would agree with you on, in this regard, is that AVB plays the percentage game and his margins for error/tolerance for error in the pursuit of a moment's glory are far less.

But I think he's doing really well all told personally, and I think it will get even better.

 

[thfcsteff]

he took over from Bruce Rioch/Houston, they played horrible football, and within a year and a half the scummers won the PL.......... with exciting football at the core

teams can play attacking/good to watch football and be successful.

Say what you will, but he walked into a club who's entire philosophy had been changed by one MASSIVE signing that our-then chairman disparaged with absolute complete and utter ignorance.

You will also note that the foundation of Wenger's side was actually a defense inherited from GGG.

Frankly, I think Wenger has been a phenomenal manager, and he also exploited a seam of African and French talent that had, at that time, remained untapped. His experience in France obviously gave him a massive advantage in this regard.

But make no mistake, the revolution there had started already. It is precisely why Dein agreed to Bergkamp and even more why he took Glenn Hoddle's advice and snapped Wenger up at the first opportunity.

 

[indianspur]

I hate to look like an AVB apologist, even more so because as of right now he's not done anything wrong IMO besides the West ham debacle, but I think it is important to consider the three MASSIVE knocks he took this summer in the window and perhaps consider their impact on our season/intended style.

He wanted David Villa badly, lost out at the death. He didn't blink, just got on with it.
He wanted Willian, indeed has wanted him since he arrived, and actually got royally ****ed over in rude fashion. He didn't blink, just got on with it.
The Bale scenario blew up backwards right as we headed to Asia, and besides the disruption, he was finally left without his star man.

Who knows whether our system would've been much different, and who knows? it might all prove to be the best thing that ever happened. But there is little doubt in my mind that Soldado was signed when he thought Bale was staying, and that if you think of a side with the speed of Bale and Lennon plus the movement, instinct and touch of Soldado, married to the return of Sandro (a player who can move the ball on quickly and efficiently) that we would've been breaking with a lot more speed.

I still get the impression this squad is finding it's feet with each other, and that until they settle in a natural groove and click, a synergetic relationship if you will, that we will see a lot more 'possession' football as it is better to not lose the ball than to gamble when you're not sure what you're doing.

One thing I would agree with you on, in this regard, is that AVB plays the percentage game and his margins for error/tolerance for error in the pursuit of a moment's glory are far less.

But I think he's doing really well all told personally, and I think it will get even better.

I have to disagree there

imo before then the club knew Bale was a goner and had already started the rebuilding job

 

[thfcsteff]

I know you are AVB's biggest champion, but the same thing happened at Chelsea. Chelsea under AVB, poor to watch. Chelsea under RDM? Exciting to watch.

The basic truth is AVB doesn't set his team up to entertain. He may try to pretend otherwise, but his strategy is the same of Mourinho's original Chelsea side. His ethos is to stifle the opposition, rather than go out and batter the **** out of them.

Let's stay onside mate. I'm enjoying our discussion as you have great points to discuss and debate.