*** The official 2025/26 Premier League thread ***

[Muttley]

Well as they like to say it s all about opinions but as i say as long/soon as we can get rid of it [VAR] the game will be a lot better off. IMO

What we need to get rid of is PGMOL. We need to take refereeing (and the budget) away from the PL and put it back with the FA. There should not be a single element of governance with the PL. P45s for Webb, Jones, Tierney, Taylor etc.

It frustrates the hell out of me that we've given these planks perfectly good technology and whether we call it corruption or incompetence then it is failing the laws of the game so badly. They should feel utterly ashamed at the weekly circus that they create.

Because we didn't act on guys like Mike Dean and Mike Riley all those years ago, we allowed this craziness to build bit by bit. Howard Webb's team are an utter disgrace. It's easily fixed with P45s.

 

[tommysvr]

I genuinely wish I agreed with your prognosis; but I cannot. There have been countless examples for Arsenal alone where both the ref and the ‘safety net’ of VAR has failed to find the correct decision. Emotion/excitement/momentum/incompetence/human error simply don’t explain the sheer number of positive decisions they’ve got. Further, I’d argue that VAR allows the officials to step outside the ‘emotion’ of having to make a split-second decision and gives them a moment (or even up to 5 mins+) to get it CORRECT. They’ve chosen not to do that in hundreds games this season. They then think that the public will be blinded when they announce that they’ve ‘only’ made about 30 errors all season. They’re able to mark their own homework and create their own narrative.

I think VAR complicates it so much. You've got refs that don't want to offend each other. You call them over to the screen and 99% that means the VAR has made the decision for them, but for some reason we've added this extra layer where it's not acceptable for a VAR to overrule an on-field ref. So we put the referee in front of a screen and millions of people watching around the world and say "hey you probably made a mistake here, let's rewatch it together."

I think there are plenty of reasons for bad decisions -- most of it generated by this clamour for perfection the Sky Sports et al created and fans lapped up. I don't believe money changing hands is one of the reasons.

 

[Muttley]

You've got refs that don't want to offend each other.

Is it this or is it that the entire team share the metrics against their performances? I remember when Mike Riley started talking about his team's performance. He was talking about how many times the video ref + tech was used to help the on-pitch ref overrule a decision. It was very few and I felt at the time that he was being very arrogant. Surely the only thing that matters to the official is how they performed against the laws of the game. He was making out there were so very few errors and his team were great.

Those metrics along with the farcical "clear and obvious" term created a culture where 2 mates on the same team didn't even bother doing anything other stick with the on-pitch decision. The guy in Stockley Park can easily just pass off a clear error that the entire world can see and the team metrics are unnaffected.

This whole PGMOL thing needs a grenade thrown into it. They've got their processes and culture so wrong. My guess is permeates from above based on the incompetence we see from FIFA.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Nah, it's bent 100%. That red that should have been last night wasn't even up for discussion, clear as day.
A manager recently got carded for being outside the technical area. Arteta has been outside his every game this season, with a fourth official right next to him.
There was a goon who pushed a ref ffs.
The grappling by goon defenders has been highlighted all season yet never punished.
You are extremely naive if you think it's not bent.

 

[Baleforce]

VAR recommended that the referee carry out a pitch side review. He did and went with his original decision. Not the fault of VAR in this case.

You have to be pretty dumb to get sent to the review booth and stick to your original decision.

You don’t get sent there unless they have seen something you missed.

 

[Lost Mango]

Stat I find odd is that the visibly and obviously dirtiest side we have seen in the history of the EPL, dirtier than Stoke, more cynical than Emirates Marketing Project, are set to become the first champions ever to win the title with no red cards or penalties awarded against them.

That just doesn't add up to me. Outrageous events happen, coincidences strike together, but it just seems beyond that, given we have seen so many calls that should have been but weren't for them but similar or softer ones are given elsewhere.

Doesn't help that the EPL management have publicly said they was a new name on the trophy every 6 years to show the competition is healthy and open.

 

[Dicko]

You have to be pretty dumb to get sent to the review booth and stick to your original decision.

You don’t get sent there unless they have seen something you missed.

Yeah I dont really get the ref going to the monitor. Its a complete waste of time. Like you say, 99% of the time they are making him go see he made a mistake and if he does choose to disagree then whats the point in having a bunch of experts watching slow mo replays if he doesn't trust them. Plus it wastes time, looks brick, ruins the experience.. and now they even added the part where he has to announce what he has seen, even though no one is listening because we know already 99% of the time what the decision is because otherwise he wouldnt have gone to the f**king monitor in the first place!!

Bin it all and set fire to it!!!!

 

[Muttley]

Yeah I dont really get the ref going to the monitor. Its a complete waste of time. Like you say, 99% of the time they are making him go see he made a mistake and if he does choose to disagree then whats the point in having a bunch of experts watching slow mo replays if he doesn't trust them. Plus it wastes time, looks brick, ruins the experience.. and now they even added the part where he has to announce what he has seen, even though no one is listening because we know already 99% of the time what the decision is because otherwise he wouldnt have gone to the f**king monitor in the first place!!

Bin it all and set fire to it!!!!

Binning it doesn't fix anything though. It just makes the bias and incompetence less of a debate. We don't need that, especially our club who are getting the wrong end of too many decisions.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Is it this or is it that the entire team share the metrics against their performances? I remember when Mike Riley started talking about his team's performance. He was talking about how many times the video ref + tech was used to help the on-pitch ref overrule a decision. It was very few and I felt at the time that he was being very arrogant. Surely the only thing that matters to the official is how they performed against the laws of the game. He was making out there were so very few errors and his team were great.

Those metrics along with the farcical "clear and obvious" term created a culture where 2 mates on the same team didn't even bother doing anything other stick with the on-pitch decision. The guy in Stockley Park can easily just pass off a clear error that the entire world can see and the team metrics are unnaffected.

This whole PGMOL thing needs a grenade thrown into it. They've got their processes and culture so wrong. My guess is permeates from above based on the incompetence we see from FIFA.

Football has reached the stage where if the referees called every foul, freekick or throw in wrong place and manager out of his box the game would stop every minute. It appears the officals aren't arrogant tacos ignoring the laws, incompetent or corrupt they are just making it a better entertainment for the fans.

 

[Muttley]

Football has reached the stage where if the referees called every foul, freekick or throw in wrong place and manager out of his box the game would stop every minute. It appears the officals aren't arrogant tacos ignoring the laws, incompetent or corrupt they are just making it a better entertainment for the fans.

Other way round. If the officials set that right tone, then the managers and players would follow very quickly. We all know players and managers will take a mile when offered an inch. The game just needs to go through the pain barrier of correcting itself led by the officials i.e. governance.

Is it any coincidence that since Webb took over the brand of football in the PL has got much worse? Not for me.

What Webb's successor needs to do is educate their stakeholders. Just tell them that gradually they will be turning the screw on the laws of the game and offering the manager advice on what to change in their own setups. Then the officials will get respect from all of us. By giving into the managers and players and ignoring the laws unfortunately it's broken what is quite a simple system.

The referees should do what their core job. Administer the laws on the pitch. It really is simple.

 

[tommysvr]

Nah, it's bent 100%.

It's easy to say but what proof do you have? Are you saying it's literally always been bent? We're not suddenly getting bad decisions. It's literally why we have VAR...to try and correct those errors. It's just the VAR has actually made it even worse because despite looking at something 20 times they still get it wrong. 20 years ago it was Man Utd bribing the refs yet no ref has even been found guilty of it in the Premier League

 

[Lost Mango]

Football has reached the stage where if the referees called every foul, freekick or throw in wrong place and manager out of his box the game would stop every minute. It appears the officals aren't arrogant tacos ignoring the laws, incompetent or corrupt they are just making it a better entertainment for the fans.

That approach is an open door for managers, such as we have seen with Arteta and his set piece routines. Where would it end?

Agree with why the refs are possibly doing it but that isn't their call to make. If it has been a directive of the EPL in order to make the game flow better than they aren't fit to run the league.

Again, a lot of things such as managers being out of their box can be retrospective punishments. You can time how long someone is out and retrospectively punish them. Out - 1 match ban, 5 minutes out, 2 match etc. Soon stop them wandering.

If you don't have some expectations and consequences then you might as well have no rules at all.

 

[Lost Mango]

It's easy to say but what proof do you have? Are you saying it's literally always been bent? We're not suddenly getting bad decisions. It's literally why we have VAR...to try and correct those errors. It's just the VAR has actually made it even worse because despite looking at something 20 times they still get it wrong. 20 years ago it was Man Utd bribing the refs yet no ref has even been found guilty of it in the Premier League

Don't think it is financially corrupt but think there is a massive bias and pressure to ensure uncontroversial results based on any of their decisions.. Call it wrong against Fergie or at Anfield and refs lives were made hell in the media and they subconciously played it safe the next time they reffed.

 

[Muttley]

That approach is an open door for managers, such as we have seen with Arteta and his set piece routines. Where would it end?

Agree with why the refs are possibly doing it but that isn't their call to make. If it has been a directive of the EPL in order to make the game flow better than they aren't fit to run the league.

Again, a lot of things such as managers being out of their box can be retrospective punishments. You can time how long someone is out and retrospectively punish them. Out - 1 match ban, 5 minutes out, 2 match etc. Soon stop them wandering.

If you don't have some expectations and consequences then you might as well have no rules at all.

Exactly this. Find me any footballer stakeholder anywhere who ever gave a referee permission to not follow the laws of the game. That is the reason they are on the pitch in the first place and why this current system is so broken.

What you touch on either consciously or unconsciously is interesting. It's about decision rights and football governance. Who exactly gave the EPL the right to give any directive? They should not be a governance function, especially not refereeing. That is the FA's job. The EPL should not even be allowed to talk to UEFA ./ FIFA. It should all be channeled through our FA, like every country in the football model.

It's farcical to think referees take direction from the EPL when you think about it. They should never have that empowerment and this is why the government regulator should start getting the baseball bat out and correcting a few things. We might as well let Sky run the game. It's the same thing as the EPL anyway.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Other way round. If the officials set that right tone, then the managers and players would follow very quickly. We all know players and managers will take a mile when offered an inch. The game just needs to go through the pain barrier of correcting itself led by the officials i.e. governance.

Is it any coincidence that since Webb took over the brand of football in the PL has got much worse? Not for me.

What Webb's successor needs to do is educate their stakeholders. Just tell them that gradually they will be turning the screw on the laws of the game and offering the manager advice on what to change in their own setups. Then the officials will get respect from all of us. By giving into the managers and players and ignoring the laws unfortunately it's broken what is quite a simple system.

The referees should do what their core job. Administer the laws on the pitch. It really is simple.

Exactly my comments on officials was meant to be facetious.

 

[tommysvr]

Don't think it is financially corrupt but think there is a massive bias and pressure to ensure uncontroversial results based on any of their decisions.. Call it wrong against Fergie or at Anfield and refs lives were made hell in the media and they subconciously played it safe the next time they reffed.

I agree, that’s what I was saying about refs falling into the narrative and emotion. Arsenal are the best team, they’re expected to win, therefore it’s easier to give a decision in their favour.

But I just don’t think there’s anything deliberately nefarious. I think they’re just humans who are as susceptible to fault as we all are. I think that’s acceptable, just as a striker will miss an open goal a ref will make a bad mistake sometimes. But then we double down on that with VAR, destroying the match viewing experience but still getting the wrong decisions and thus far more controversy.

I also think the rule makers and constant changes have made their life even more difficult. Who can keep up with it all? Every rule has about five asterisks.

 

[Muttley]

 

[Yiddo]

So my Arsenal supporting mate at work claims Palace get £10m as part of the Eze deal if Arsenal win the league. Is that correct?

 

[elyid]

It frustrates the hell out of me that we've given these planks perfectly good technology and whether we call it corruption or incompetence then it is failing the laws of the game so badly. They should feel utterly ashamed at the weekly circus that they create.

That’s a great point. Why aren’t they ashamed? Instead they’re constantly gaslighting to justify their bad decision.

In a normal environment they’d be apologising and saying it’s not up to scratch but they are trying to do better… every part of PGMOL is a disgrace really.

 

[Lost Mango]

So my Arsenal supporting mate at work claims Palace get £10m as part of the Eze deal if Arsenal win the league. Is that correct?

Apparently.