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The Official 2021/22 Premier League Thread

Grays_1890 said:
There is a difference between not drinking and not recognising someones right to be gay.

If you are saying you won't support what's seen a a freedom of life because of religion then no I don't respect that aspect.
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Religion isn't something most people cherry-pick from though. If you're saying "you can do Ramadan and not drink but you must believe that homosexuality is okay", you're denying people their right to their religion because you're asking them to conform to your view of what parts of it are acceptable.
 
glasgowspur said:
This where it all gets a bit murky, someone's rights are going to get trampled.
Nobody wins.
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Not if people can recognise that part of their religion is hateful, easy to take the best parts out of a religion and leave the crap behind. Its a time now where people are more travelled more open to experiences and exposure to these elements of life. We are not talking about unseen Brazilian rain forest dwellers who haven't see the world to know it's changed
 
DeanoAustin said:
Religion isn't something most people cherry-pick from though. If you're saying "you can do Ramadan and not drink but you must believe that homosexuality is okay", you're denying people their right to their religion because you're asking them to conform to your view of what parts of it are acceptable.
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It's not denying them or asking them to conform to parts that are acceptable it's about believing we all should take responsibility as adults of what is acceptable as and towards other human beings
 
Grays_1890 said:
It's not denying them or asking them to conform to parts that are acceptable it's about believing we all should take responsibility as adults of what is acceptable as and towards other human beings
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Most religions do not believe that homosexuality is acceptable. So if you want everyone to support inclusivity, you have to deny people the right to adhere to their religious beliefs. There is no middle ground here - the two approaches are mutually exclusive.

@glasgowspur is right. Someone's rights get trampled here although I'm not sure anyone is brave enough to admit that in an environment where no one wants to be seen to not respect everyone's "rights".
 
Grays_1890 said:
Not if people can recognise that part of their religion is hateful, easy to take the best parts out of a religion and leave the crap behind. Its a time now where people are more travelled more open to experiences and exposure to these elements of life. We are not talking about unseen Brazilian rain forest dwellers who haven't see the world to know it's changed
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As i mentioned in a post a couple of days ago I know several religious people who are quite happy following the more distasteful elements of their religion when its against people, or more accurately groups of people, they don't know, but when its an individual it doesn't seem to bother them.
Its not easy going against the crowd i suppose.
 
Grays_1890 said:
It's abit of a push to fall back on scriptures over 2000 years old to discriminate in the modern world. I respect people who follow religion I don't respect people who can't take a step back and see the difference between right and wrong without needing a book or a priest to tell them.

Not a dig at you at all but if someone said they were homophobic because their dad was you wouldn't stand it and rightfully so, for me that's the same.as religion
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While I find religion pretty ridiculous, I don't think you can morally pick and choose. If you respect people who follow religion, you've got to respect their beliefs.

If someone's dad, and his dad's dad, and a long chain of his ancestors all (1) believed in some sort of divine being and (2) believed that homosexuality was an affront against said divine being, I would respect that as their belief AS LONG AS THEY WERE PREPARED TO LIVE AND LET LIVE.

I am vaguely uneasy about mixing politics and sport. It's the other side of the same coin that was seen at the Berlin Olympics, if you see what I mean. The world is made up of shades of grey.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Most religions do not believe that homosexuality is acceptable. So if you want everyone to support inclusivity, you have to deny people the right to adhere to their religious beliefs. There is no middle ground here - the two approaches are mutually exclusive.

@glasgowspur is right. Someone's rights get trampled here although I'm not sure anyone is brave enough to admit that in an environment where no one wants to be seen to not respect everyone's "rights".
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Hmmmm see many religions do have on their writings and teachings that homosexuality is outlawed for want of a better term but also many have modernised and those parts are proactively ignored by the establishment or its members. Not perfect but it exists in part.

But again it's not asking people to not practice their religion it's expecting humans regardless of religion to make their own conscious decisions over what's right and wrong in the modern world. Plenty manage it
 
Grays_1890 said:
Hmmmm see many religions do have on their writings and teachings that homosexuality is outlawed for want of a better term but also many have modernised and those parts are proactively ignored by the establishment or its members. Not perfect but it exists in part.

But again it's not asking people to not practice their religion it's expecting humans regardless of religion to make their own conscious decisions over what's right and wrong in the modern world. Plenty manage it
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Plenty manage it...and the rest use religion as their guide!

But not all religions are the same. The Christianity of 300 years ago (or whenever the Inquisition were riding around) is not the same as it is now. Back then, it was just as bigoted and steadfastly unyielding as some branches of Islam are nowadays. While I doubt there are any branches of Islam that are cool with homosexuality, some of them are definitely more progressive than others. Maybe one day one of them will come out and reassess their interpretation of the Koran, just like several other religions have.

The way I see it, everyone has the right to think what they want, but it's the ability to not act on it that elevates us above animals. To be a reasonable member of society. I strongly dislike Gooners, for example, but I'm not going to go around stabbing the fudgers.

I cannot believe this thread has got me to a point where I'm defending religion. I feel dirty.
 
glasgowspur said:
Is it ok to believe that something isn't right as long as you don't discriminate against it?
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Well the lines get blurry because technically discrimination is how you distinguish the treatment of people in your beliefs as much as actions, they don't have to be scrawling "gays dont knock here" to actively discriminate, extreme example I know before you say :)

Like I say I think the veil of religion is a cop out in the modern world where most people have the luxury of knowing whats wrong or right without flicking through a book to tell you.

Anyway its an interesting conversation none the less, much love to you all
 
FatBloke said:
Plenty manage it...and the rest use religion as their guide!

But not all religions are the same. The Christianity of 300 years ago (or whenever the Inquisition were riding around) is not the same as it is now. Back then, it was just as bigoted and steadfastly unyielding as some branches of Islam are nowadays. While I doubt there are any branches of Islam that are cool with homosexuality, some of them are definitely more progressive than others. Maybe one day one of them will come out and reassess their interpretation of the Koran, just like several other religions have.

The way I see it, everyone has the right to think what they want, but it's the ability to not act on it that elevates us above animals. To be a reasonable member of society. I strongly dislike Gooners, for example, but I'm not going to go around stabbing the fudgers.

I cannot believe this thread has got me to a point where I'm defending religion. I feel dirty.
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Islam is still riding high in popularity, unlike a few of the Christian sects, once that starts to wain they will change the rules to allow more in.
 
FatBloke said:
Plenty manage it...and the rest use religion as their guide!

But not all religions are the same. The Christianity of 300 years ago (or whenever the Inquisition were riding around) is not the same as it is now. Back then, it was just as bigoted and steadfastly unyielding as some branches of Islam are nowadays. While I doubt there are any branches of Islam that are cool with homosexuality, some of them are definitely more progressive than others. Maybe one day one of them will come out and reassess their interpretation of the Koran, just like several other religions have.

The way I see it, everyone has the right to think what they want, but it's the ability to not act on it that elevates us above animals. To be a reasonable member of society. I strongly dislike Gooners, for example, but I'm not going to go around stabbing the fudgers.

I cannot believe this thread has got me to a point where I'm defending religion. I feel dirty.
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Now hang on a minute, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you feel that strongly about Gooners, you should be allowed to express that dislike...
 
DeanoAustin said:
Religion isn't something most people cherry-pick from though. If you're saying "you can do Ramadan and not drink but you must believe that homosexuality is okay", you're denying people their right to their religion because you're asking them to conform to your view of what parts of it are acceptable.
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Everyone religious cherry picks, because every scripture has something batbrick crazy in it.
 
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