The Official 2019/20 Premier League Thread

[Glenda's Legs]

Sadiq Khan is against PL football taking place in London. I don't know if he can actually stop it though?
Key will be the police, which could prove problematic.

Khan is keen to push back on plans for any top-flight sport in a city which has been one of the worst hit by the coronavirus pandemic, despite a noticeable dip in numbers in recent weeks. A spokesperson for the Mayor’s office told Standard Sport: “Sadiq is extremely keen for the Premier League and professional sport in general to resume. However, with the country still in the grips of this crisis, and hundreds of people dying every day, he believes that it is too early to be discussing the resumption of the Premier League and top-flight sport in the capital.

“As a Liverpool fan, Sadiq of course wants the Premier League to return, but it can only happen when it is safe to do so, and it cannot place any extra burden on the NHS and emergency services.”

The Premier League are now set to raise the issue of venues in a meeting with Oliver Dowden, the Secretary of State for the Department of Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, and the Metropolitan Police on Thursday, with concerns about fans gathering in big numbers outside grounds on match days.

Mark Roberts, the UK’s most senior football police officer, has supported the neutral venues plan and previously told clubs in opposition to “get a grip”.

It is thought some of the bigger clubs, including Arsenal, are concerned about the loss of sponsorship revenue from stadium naming rights deals.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...league-plan-restart-london-june-a4438206.html

 

[Lemonade Money]

Sadiq Khan is against PL football taking place in London. I don't know if he can actually stop it though?
Key will be the police, which could prove problematic.

Khan is keen to push back on plans for any top-flight sport in a city which has been one of the worst hit by the coronavirus pandemic, despite a noticeable dip in numbers in recent weeks. A spokesperson for the Mayor’s office told Standard Sport: “Sadiq is extremely keen for the Premier League and professional sport in general to resume. However, with the country still in the grips of this crisis, and hundreds of people dying every day, he believes that it is too early to be discussing the resumption of the Premier League and top-flight sport in the capital.

“As a Liverpool fan, Sadiq of course wants the Premier League to return, but it can only happen when it is safe to do so, and it cannot place any extra burden on the NHS and emergency services.”

The Premier League are now set to raise the issue of venues in a meeting with Oliver Dowden, the Secretary of State for the Department of Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, and the Metropolitan Police on Thursday, with concerns about fans gathering in big numbers outside grounds on match days.

Mark Roberts, the UK’s most senior football police officer, has supported the neutral venues plan and previously told clubs in opposition to “get a grip”.

It is thought some of the bigger clubs, including Arsenal, are concerned about the loss of sponsorship revenue from stadium naming rights deals.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...league-plan-restart-london-june-a4438206.html

fudging plastic.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

If we cancel it, which English teams would go into the CL next season? Current top 4, or top 4 from last season? Whichever is decided upon, the others who miss out take the PL to court. Similarly with promotions/relegations etc

The numbers of deaths are coming down sharply and the peak in the UK was now over a month ago. By the time the PL re-starts in June, they'll be even lower. The only reason the case numbers haven't come down is that we're testing 3x-4x the number of people from a few weeks ago

I don't see how playing a game without fans at a neutral venue risks more infections than brickies going back to building sites this week, or people going back to factories.

I'm all for re-starting the league in June. It may not be perfect, but its the least-bad

I don't care lives and peoples health are far more important than any sport, anyone who cant see that lives in a very sad world.

 

[Thebarbarian]

This is a logistical and legal quagmire. It boils down to two options:
1) Finish the season under the same rules it started; or
2) Declare the season null and void.

If a compromise situation is imposed then the legal ramifications are massive. Firstly what happens to players contracts that have expired? Take for example, the player Chelsea have bought from Ajax, his contract with Chelsea takes effect on July 1st, however if the edict from EPL/FA/UEFA/FIFA ,or whichever fudging idiots proclaim to be in charge, says that new players cannot be used to complete the 19/20 season then why should Chelsea pay him from July 1st when they can't reap the benefits of his employment? So if they don't pay him then the player is entitled to walk away from the contract, not withstanding the fact that he can cite restriction of trade by not being allowed to play under his contract. Ajax no longer have any contractual responsibility for him so they won't pay him. So who pays him? Does he want to be paid to do nothing? Can he walk away from the contract and join Bayern Munich? Secondly, as Scara said earlier, the least potential litigious scenario is to null the season and declare last seasons positions as the qualifying ones for Europe next season (should there be European football). I think AdamB said of course we want that but Chelsea will fight it. It isn't that simple, unless the EPL Mandate has conditions that contemplate such a scenario of an incomplete season (and not able to be completed) then any argument saying "but we've played 75% of the games" is a very long bow to stretch as a legal argument. If it has been contemplated then we obviously haven't reached the point where the mandate can make the decision because if it had the whole discussion about finishing the league and determining final positions would be a moot point.

But the real deciding factor should be, no one should be allowed to contravene the advice given to the general population of England (not being anti-Scottish etc but this is about the EPL .. and Swansea and Cardiff can fudge off anyway) with regards social distancing, isolation, social gatherings etc unless it is a specific requirement of their job for the benefit of theirs and other peoples health and safety (eg Healthcare workers, Emergency services, police, defence personnel etc etc). Danny Rose actually summed it up perfectly when he said it is about peoples health and saving lives. Well over 100 healthcare workers have died because of this pandemic in England, so why allow a bunch of sportsmen to jeopardise peoples health and put these frontline workers back in a position of danger? I would fully expect the Healthcare Unions to speak up about this and loudly as it is just insane to think about doing it.

Wait until the season can be completed under the same conditions it started, if this cannot be done, then null and void it.

 

[AdamB]

This is a logistical and legal quagmire. It boils down to two options:
1) Finish the season under the same rules it started; or
2) Declare the season null and void.

If a compromise situation is imposed then the legal ramifications are massive. Firstly what happens to players contracts that have expired? Take for example, the player Chelsea have bought from Ajax, his contract with Chelsea takes effect on July 1st, however if the edict from EPL/FA/UEFA/FIFA ,or whichever fudging idiots proclaim to be in charge, says that new players cannot be used to complete the 19/20 season then why should Chelsea pay him from July 1st when they can't reap the benefits of his employment? So if they don't pay him then the player is entitled to walk away from the contract, not withstanding the fact that he can cite restriction of trade by not being allowed to play under his contract. Ajax no longer have any contractual responsibility for him so they won't pay him. So who pays him? Does he want to be paid to do nothing? Can he walk away from the contract and join Bayern Munich? Secondly, as Scara said earlier, the least potential litigious scenario is to null the season and declare last seasons positions as the qualifying ones for Europe next season (should there be European football). I think AdamB said of course we want that but Chelsea will fight it. It isn't that simple, unless the EPL Mandate has conditions that contemplate such a scenario of an incomplete season (and not able to be completed) then any argument saying "but we've played 75% of the games" is a very long bow to stretch as a legal argument. If it has been contemplated then we obviously haven't reached the point where the mandate can make the decision because if it had the whole discussion about finishing the league and determining final positions would be a moot point.

But the real deciding factor should be, no one should be allowed to contravene the advice given to the general population of England (not being anti-Scottish etc but this is about the EPL .. and Swansea and Cardiff can fudge off anyway) with regards social distancing, isolation, social gatherings etc unless it is a specific requirement of their job for the benefit of theirs and other peoples health and safety (eg Healthcare workers, Emergency services, police, defence personnel etc etc). Danny Rose actually summed it up perfectly when he said it is about peoples health and saving lives. Well over 100 healthcare workers have died because of this pandemic in England, so why allow a bunch of sportsmen to jeopardise peoples health and put these frontline workers back in a position of danger? I would fully expect the Healthcare Unions to speak up about this and loudly as it is just insane to think about doing it.

Wait until the season can be completed under the same conditions it started, if this cannot be done, then null and void it.

Agree its a logistical and legal nightmare, though you're ignoring the 3rd option of completing the season at neutral venues. I think thats the route we'll go down and is the most sensible in my view. Its possible you could also get the clubs to sign waivers and agree to be bound by the league positions which results from it.

By June 12th we'll have some school kids back, industrial and construction sectors will have been back working for a month and other restrictions will have been loosened. The increase in number of people having some social contact as a result 20 teams and associated staff pales into insignificance against those sectors - it would increase the number of people who are 'back to work' by substantially less than 1%. From a virus risk perspective, its therefore a rounding error at best.

Assuming the current trends continue, deaths will be less than half by June 12th, probably around a third of current levels and current levels are already 50% down from the peak. We'll have days where deaths are <100 and therefore the general environment will look and feel a lot different. You should have course wait until there are zero new cases and zero deaths though obviously that's not realistic. What level if tolerable is a grey area but I feel that those sort of levels are entirely acceptable.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Agree its a logistical and legal nightmare, though you're ignoring the 3rd option of completing the season at neutral venues. I think thats the route we'll go down and is the most sensible in my view. Its possible you could also get the clubs to sign waivers and agree to be bound by the league positions which results from it.

By June 12th we'll have some school kids back, industrial and construction sectors will have been back working for a month and other restrictions will have been loosened. The increase in number of people having some social contact as a result 20 teams and associated staff pales into insignificance against those sectors - it would increase the number of people who are 'back to work' by substantially less than 1%. From a virus risk perspective, its therefore a rounding error at best.

Assuming the current trends continue, deaths will be less than half by June 12th, probably around a third of current levels and current levels are already 50% down from the peak. We'll have days where deaths are <100 and therefore the general environment will look and feel a lot different. You should have course wait until there are zero new cases and zero deaths though obviously that's not realistic. What level if tolerable is a grey area but I feel that those sort of levels are entirely acceptable.

Neutral venues has been binned

 

[AdamB]

Neutral venues has been binned

Play at main venues has been stated as the preference I agree, but if that gets ruled out then neutral venues would inevitably get tabled again. I think you'll get teh required 14 clubs voting for either playing in main home/away stadia (but empty) or, if authorities won't allow that, then playing at neutral venues instead

 

[jts1882]

Khan is opposing any football matches in London, at least PL ones. I don't think it is his decision but if he and the police are opposed I doubt the government will push ahead.

 

[parklane1]

I don't care lives and peoples health are far more important than any sport, anyone who cant see that lives in a very sad world.

This.

This is a logistical and legal quagmire. It boils down to two options:
1) Finish the season under the same rules it started; or
2) Declare the season null and void.

If a compromise situation is imposed then the legal ramifications are massive. Firstly what happens to players contracts that have expired? Take for example, the player Chelsea have bought from Ajax, his contract with Chelsea takes effect on July 1st, however if the edict from EPL/FA/UEFA/FIFA ,or whichever fudging idiots proclaim to be in charge, says that new players cannot be used to complete the 19/20 season then why should Chelsea pay him from July 1st when they can't reap the benefits of his employment? So if they don't pay him then the player is entitled to walk away from the contract, not withstanding the fact that he can cite restriction of trade by not being allowed to play under his contract. Ajax no longer have any contractual responsibility for him so they won't pay him. So who pays him? Does he want to be paid to do nothing? Can he walk away from the contract and join Bayern Munich? Secondly, as Scara said earlier, the least potential litigious scenario is to null the season and declare last seasons positions as the qualifying ones for Europe next season (should there be European football). I think AdamB said of course we want that but Chelsea will fight it. It isn't that simple, unless the EPL Mandate has conditions that contemplate such a scenario of an incomplete season (and not able to be completed) then any argument saying "but we've played 75% of the games" is a very long bow to stretch as a legal argument. If it has been contemplated then we obviously haven't reached the point where the mandate can make the decision because if it had the whole discussion about finishing the league and determining final positions would be a moot point.

But the real deciding factor should be, no one should be allowed to contravene the advice given to the general population of England (not being anti-Scottish etc but this is about the EPL .. and Swansea and Cardiff can fudge off anyway) with regards social distancing, isolation, social gatherings etc unless it is a specific requirement of their job for the benefit of theirs and other peoples health and safety (eg Healthcare workers, Emergency services, police, defence personnel etc etc). Danny Rose actually summed it up perfectly when he said it is about peoples health and saving lives. Well over 100 healthcare workers have died because of this pandemic in England, so why allow a bunch of sportsmen to jeopardise peoples health and put these frontline workers back in a position of danger? I would fully expect the Healthcare Unions to speak up about this and loudly as it is just insane to think about doing it.

Wait until the season can be completed under the same conditions it started, if this cannot be done, then null and void it.

And this.

 

[RunTMC]

Agree its a logistical and legal nightmare, though you're ignoring the 3rd option of completing the season at neutral venues. I think thats the route we'll go down and is the most sensible in my view. Its possible you could also get the clubs to sign waivers and agree to be bound by the league positions which results from it.

By June 12th we'll have some school kids back, industrial and construction sectors will have been back working for a month and other restrictions will have been loosened. The increase in number of people having some social contact as a result 20 teams and associated staff pales into insignificance against those sectors - it would increase the number of people who are 'back to work' by substantially less than 1%. From a virus risk perspective, its therefore a rounding error at best.

Assuming the current trends continue, deaths will be less than half by June 12th, probably around a third of current levels and current levels are already 50% down from the peak. We'll have days where deaths are <100 and therefore the general environment will look and feel a lot different. You should have course wait until there are zero new cases and zero deaths though obviously that's not realistic. What level if tolerable is a grey area but I feel that those sort of levels are entirely acceptable.

Govt guidelines say go back to work if you can’t work from home and if it is safe to do so. Safe usually means social distancing or the wearing of some form of PPE. Neither of those are possible with football.

I do agree with you in that bringing back football itself won’t make a material difference to the country’s overall covid situation. But it does make a massive difference to the individual player. Right now they’re in control of how much risk they allow themselves to be exposed to. Bringing it back means they’re now out there in the wild, travelling, using transport and transportation hubs. For the individual that’s massively increasing their risk. BTW even without football players are still testing positive, Brighton just had a third player test positive. Bringing football back would just make it worse, and then they go back to their families and potentially infect them etc

Also regarding the 12 June date, that’s just a few weeks away. They haven kicked a ball or trained in anger for 2 months. Surely they’re gonna need a short pre-season to get fit or risk injuries. And that would need to pretty much start kind of like now really. Tough for that to happen.

I love the game and I miss it but bringing it back (more like forcing it back) just feels all wrong to me. This whole season is tainted anyway. Cancel the whole damn thing and restart when it’s safe to do so

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Govt guidelines say go back to work if you can’t work from home and if it is safe to do so. Safe usually means social distancing or the wearing of some form of PPE. Neither of those are possible with football.

I do agree with you in that bringing back football itself won’t make a material difference to the country’s overall covid situation. But it does make a massive difference to the individual player. Right now they’re in control of how much risk they allow themselves to be exposed to. Bringing it back means they’re now out there in the wild, travelling, using transport and transportation hubs. For the individual that’s massively increasing their risk. BTW even without football players are still testing positive, Brighton just had a third player test positive. Bringing football back would just make it worse, and then they go back to their families and potentially infect them etc

Also regarding the 12 June date, that’s just a few weeks away. They haven kicked a ball or trained in anger for 2 months. Surely they’re gonna need a short pre-season to get fit or risk injuries. And that would need to pretty much start kind of like now really. Tough for that to happen.

I love the game and I miss it but bringing it back (more like forcing it back) just feels all wrong to me. This whole season is tainted anyway. Cancel the whole damn thing and restart when it’s safe to do so

It is currently planned for training to recommence from 18 May - but as per the PL's guidelines - without tackling. That may well be fine anyway for the first few days/week when the focus will probably be on general fitness and ball work anyway. But why would tackling be OK w/c 25 May for example, but not w/c 18 May? It all seems like a bit of fudge to make it happen. I still can't see that it will go ahead.

 

[AdamB]

Govt guidelines say go back to work if you can’t work from home and if it is safe to do so. Safe usually means social distancing or the wearing of some form of PPE. Neither of those are possible with football.

I do agree with you in that bringing back football itself won’t make a material difference to the country’s overall covid situation. But it does make a massive difference to the individual player. Right now they’re in control of how much risk they allow themselves to be exposed to. Bringing it back means they’re now out there in the wild, travelling, using transport and transportation hubs. For the individual that’s massively increasing their risk. BTW even without football players are still testing positive, Brighton just had a third player test positive. Bringing football back would just make it worse, and then they go back to their families and potentially infect them etc

Also regarding the 12 June date, that’s just a few weeks away. They haven kicked a ball or trained in anger for 2 months. Surely they’re gonna need a short pre-season to get fit or risk injuries. And that would need to pretty much start kind of like now really. Tough for that to happen.

I love the game and I miss it but bringing it back (more like forcing it back) just feels all wrong to me. This whole season is tainted anyway. Cancel the whole damn thing and restart when it’s safe to do so

Training is due to re-start next week (I believe) in groups of up to 5, so they'll have say 3-4 weeks training. I assume that in a week or two it'll then be full groups. Again I dont see that as any different to brickies and people in manufacturing jobs going back this week.

Bundesliga starting this weekend, Serie A want to re-start on 13 June. Both those countries were a little ahead of us in terms of timing for the virus though.

Ultimately this isnt a clear-cut decision, however I think the PL will be back though, around middle of June

 

[camspur]

Training is due to re-start next week (I believe) in groups of up to 5, so they'll have say 3-4 weeks training. I assume that in a week or two it'll then be full groups. Again I dont see that as any different to brickies and people in manufacturing jobs going back this week.

Bundesliga starting this weekend, Serie A want to re-start on 13 June. Both those countries were a little ahead of us in terms of timing for the virus though.

Ultimately this isnt a clear-cut decision, however I think the PL will be back though, around middle of June

Bundesliga 2 has been put in doubt though because Dynamo Dresden have just gone in to a 2 week isolation and 3 Koln players have tested positive. There has been a rise in Covid cases in Germany since the restrictions were lifted and it may be that restrictions are put back in place.

 

[AdamB]

Bundesliga 2 has been put in doubt though because Dynamo Dresden have just gone in to a 2 week isolation and 3 Koln players have tested positive. There has been a rise in Covid cases in Germany since the restrictions were lifted and it may be that restrictions are put back in place.

Yep, all leagues re-starting and finishing will be dependent on the virus being contained.

There hasnt really be an uptick in case in Germany at all though - data is here: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/ There was an 1-day uptick in cases in Germany yesterday but if you look at the last say, 10-15 days, its very flat with various day to day fluctuations but no real uptick or downtrend.

We'll have another almost 4 weeks of data before the PL re-starts and have hte advantage of seeing what happens in Germany, Spain, Italy, France etc so could easily cancel PL games again in the event that the re-openings in those countries does cause substantial rises (there will always be 'some' rise given that with more people interacting, there will be more cases....its just a question of how much and what is tolerable)

 

[markysimmo]

John Barnes: 'Without relegation, Liverpool shouldn't be given the league’

Former Liverpool and England midfielder John Barnes says he thinks the league should be restarted “when we’re able to safely play again”.

Speaking to 5 Live’s Clare McDonnell, the Liverpool legend said the season “isn’t like Christmas Day has to be December 25th… the football season doesn’t have to be August to May, you can actually adjust”.

When asked if Liverpool should be given the league, John said “not if teams aren’t going to be called to be relegated, no."

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

fudging hell has he had a bang on the head? He'll never be safe in Liverpool again.

 

[markysimmo]

The government says it is "opening the door" for the return of professional football in England in June.

Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said Thursday's meeting with the Football Association, Premier League and English Football League had "progressed plans".

He added that plans for the sport to resume should "include widening access for fans to view live coverage".

Meanwhile, England's deputy chief medical officer said any return would be "slow" and "measured".

The Premier League met on Monday to discuss "Project Restart" and hopes for a return to action on 12 June, with matches played behind closed doors.

"We all agreed that we will only go ahead if it is safe to do so and the health and welfare of players, coaches and staff comes first," said Dowden.

"It is now up to the football authorities to agree and finalise the detail of their plans, and there is combined goodwill to achieve this for their fans, the football community and the nation as a whole.

"The government and our medical experts will continue to offer guidance and support."

He added that plans to return should "ensure finances from the game's resumption supports the wider football family".

The next meeting of Premier League clubs will take place on Monday, when top-flight players may return to initial group training under social distancing protocols.

Footballers have so far been limited to individual training but Premier League bosses hope a first phase of team training, under strict guidelines and restricted to 75 minutes, can begin next week.

• Premier League clubs facing £340m TV refund even if season resumes
• Restrictions in place for team training under 'Project Restart'
• Premier League clubs confident neutral venues stance to be reversed

England's deputy chief medical officer, Jonathan Van-Tam, said: "There will be small, carefully measured, step-wise approaches to see what can be achieved safely. The first of those is to return safely to training, still observing social distancing.

"We will have to see how that goes before we can even think about moving on to the return of competitive football matches."

Monday's meeting will come after a weekend when the Bundesliga, Germany's top flight, becomes the first major league to restart.

• Bundesliga: What you need to know about this season

The Premier League has been suspended since 13 March because of the Covid-19 pandemic and most teams have nine fixtures left to play.

Brighton had a third player test positive for coronavirus earlier in May and boss Graham Potter is wary about a return to action.

"We are in uncharted territory. It's a hugely complex situation," he said.

"It's very difficult to call one day to the next. The general will from all the clubs is to play out the season as close to the format as possible. Whatever date that is remains to be seen.

"We are sanitising the environment. The players are not coming in for any length of time.

"It will be as safe as it is made to be. The challenge will be when [we have] contact, larger groups and different teams. We need to see where we are on Monday and then Tuesday."

He added: "There are concerns, of course. We have come out of lockdown. The situation is not totally resolved.

"I have a young family. My wife's family has health issues. We are human beings."

Meanwhile, the Premier League confirmed clubs had decided that short-term contract extensions could be agreed with players whose deals run out on 30 June, with the season set to go beyond that date.

Club and players will now have until 23 June to agree extensions which run until whenever the campaign is scheduled to finish.

Premier League chief executive Richard Masters said it was decided "to ensure as far as possible that clubs complete the season with the same squad they had available prior to the suspension of the campaign".

 

[Aldo]

That Oliver Dowden is a proper wetwipe. He’s being intimidated by the football machine.

 

[jts1882]

I think the risk of players infecting each other while training or playing is overstated (as long as they don't spit at each other). The R value of this virus during the peak of the infection was around 3. That means for all the interactions of an infected person with others over around a week while infectious they only pass it on to a few people. Most of these cases will be prolonged contact in enclosed spaces. The individual risks of infection are low, it only becomes a problem when a tiny risk for each interaction is scaled up to the whole population.

To finish the season the players should be "quarantined" as group. Players shouldn't be going home for the month required to finish the season and should live in hotels with their teammates. They will probably be at less risk of infection in a controlled environment than if mixing with family, friends and hookers.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

I think the risk of players infecting each other while training or playing is overstated (as long as they don't spit at each other). The R value of this virus during the peak of the infection was around 3. That means for all the interactions of an infected person with others over around a week while infectious they only pass it on to a few people. Most of these cases will be prolonged contact in enclosed spaces. The individual risks of infection are low, it only becomes a problem when a tiny risk for each interaction is scaled up to the whole population.

To finish the season the players should be "quarantined" as group. Players shouldn't be going home for the month required to finish the season and should live in hotels with their teammates. They will probably be at less risk of infection in a controlled environment than if mixing with family, friends and hookers.

I don't have a lot of respect for professional footballers but treating them liked caged animals so that they can entertain a bunch of armchair "fans" who dont have the intellect to entertain themselves seems unreasonable. 6