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The Goon Thread

It was always going to be a tough gig for a fan base that not so long ago saw 4th and finishing up above us as a consolation prize, whilst they waited for the matchday revenue windfall to come to compete for the title again. During the development of the Emirates what was seemingly a top 2 became the sky 4 and their attempts to address dropping out of the top 4 as City and ourselves have joined the party seem to show an ownership group they have little understanding of the niches of football. They’ve tried to go cheaply on the manager front yet overpay on wages and maybe even a couple of transfers in the same way ‘new money’ clubs do initially, where they have to overpay to compensate for the lack of CL. If it is a case of when rather than if Arteta goes, I think now any truly elite manager will look at it as an impossible job, which leaves them with either an experienced stop gap who’s on their way down to stabilise them or an up and coming coach who doesn’t have a lot of CL experience. This should have been the remit pre Arteta though.
 
MKSpur said:
It was always going to be a tough gig for a fan base that not so long ago saw 4th and finishing up above us as a consolation prize, whilst they waited for the matchday revenue windfall to come to compete for the title again. During the development of the Emirates what was seemingly a top 2 became the sky 4 and their attempts to address dropping out of the top 4 as City and ourselves have joined the party seem to show an ownership group they have little understanding of the niches of football. They’ve tried to go cheaply on the manager front yet overpay on wages and maybe even a couple of transfers in the same way ‘new money’ clubs do initially, where they have to overpay to compensate for the lack of CL. If it is a case of when rather than if Arteta goes, I think now any truly elite manager will look at it as an impossible job, which leaves them with either an experienced stop gap who’s on their way down to stabilise them or an up and coming coach who doesn’t have a lot of CL experience. This should have been the remit pre Arteta though.
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Brendan Rodgers, I'm hearing?
I think he would cost too much.
 
MKSpur said:
It was always going to be a tough gig for a fan base that not so long ago saw 4th and finishing up above us as a consolation prize, whilst they waited for the matchday revenue windfall to come to compete for the title again. During the development of the Emirates what was seemingly a top 2 became the sky 4 and their attempts to address dropping out of the top 4 as City and ourselves have joined the party seem to show an ownership group they have little understanding of the niches of football. They’ve tried to go cheaply on the manager front yet overpay on wages and maybe even a couple of transfers in the same way ‘new money’ clubs do initially, where they have to overpay to compensate for the lack of CL. If it is a case of when rather than if Arteta goes, I think now any truly elite manager will look at it as an impossible job, which leaves them with either an experienced stop gap who’s on their way down to stabilise them or an up and coming coach who doesn’t have a lot of CL experience. This should have been the remit pre Arteta though.
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I think that even an up and coming manager might think twice now. They are such a mess off field that they would be risking their career.
 
milo said:
Why take it? Leicester are in far better shape both on field and off. Leicester would want a fortune too.
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Rodgers cares about himself and his own career. He also has an ego the size of London. So I wouldn't be surprised if he saw Woolwich as a better long term bet to win the big prizes than Leicester. They are a much bigger club even if they are currently all over the place.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Rodgers cares about himself and his own career. He also has an ego the size of London. So I wouldn't be surprised if he saw Woolwich as a better long term bet to win the big prizes than Leicester. They are a much bigger club even if they are currently all over the place.
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I agree with all that. I just wonder how much of the off field mess needs to be sorted before they can turn things around on the pitch. Given most managers last about three years, they haven't got time to wait for the club to sort itself out.
 
MKSpur said:
It was always going to be a tough gig for a fan base that not so long ago saw 4th and finishing up above us as a consolation prize, whilst they waited for the matchday revenue windfall to come to compete for the title again. During the development of the Emirates what was seemingly a top 2 became the sky 4 and their attempts to address dropping out of the top 4 as City and ourselves have joined the party seem to show an ownership group they have little understanding of the niches of football. They’ve tried to go cheaply on the manager front yet overpay on wages and maybe even a couple of transfers in the same way ‘new money’ clubs do initially, where they have to overpay to compensate for the lack of CL. If it is a case of when rather than if Arteta goes, I think now any truly elite manager will look at it as an impossible job, which leaves them with either an experienced stop gap who’s on their way down to stabilise them or an up and coming coach who doesn’t have a lot of CL experience. This should have been the remit pre Arteta though.
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The issue is they actually went into the stadium too early/bad time, so had bricker interest rates, didn't focus as much on corporate/hospitality as new stadiums do and didn't have a Levy that clearly understands even larger matchday revenue would never be enough to compete with Pool/United/City/Chelsea (hence we built the multi-use stadium).

So you have a club that still has stadium debt, a squad on extremely high wages which is aging, a junior manager and no real strategy either to improve the squad or to change the finances of the club (Woodward at United is football macaron, but the amount of sponsorship deals and revenue streams they generate is insane) long term.
 
milo said:
I agree with all that. I just wonder how much of the off field mess needs to be sorted before they can turn things around on the pitch. Given most managers last about three years, they haven't got time to wait for the club to sort itself out.
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What's hilarious is ten or twelve years ago Levy used to take heat for cycling through managers, now United and the Scum seem to be stuck in that loop while we have had two fairly long term appointments with Harry and Poch

For a manger to compete on pitch, you need to either sort the chaos off the pitch or throw lots and lots of money at it (Chelsea and Madrid model), the Scum don't have option 2.
 
Raziel said:
The issue is they actually went into the stadium too early/bad time, so had bricker interest rates, didn't focus as much on corporate/hospitality as new stadiums do and didn't have a Levy that clearly understands even larger matchday revenue would never be enough to compete with Pool/United/City/Chelsea (hence we built the multi-use stadium).

So you have a club that still has stadium debt, a squad on extremely high wages which is aging, a junior manager and no real strategy either to improve the squad or to change the finances of the club (Woodward at United is football macaron, but the amount of sponsorship deals and revenue streams they generate is insane) long term.
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I think at the time their corporate offer was seen as something else, in the same way Wembley was but both feel incredibly dated already and both sacrificed any sense of atmosphere within the bowl.
At the time I guess they thought it would bring them closer to United but the tv money expanding, the new clubs financially doping meant they couldn’t afford to stand still everywhere else. I’m sure under Wenger they had a very flat wage structure, which just meant average players being overpaid and top players not being attracted / leaving. A lack of succession planning didn’t help, along with what I think was an over confidence that just coming 4th would be enough.
As for us, when we can actually use it the multi use could really be looked back on as a master stroke, reducing the amount of days the stadium is empty could offer double the gains in capacity, corporate and food and drink revenue we would have got ordinarily. We were a little lucky as I don’t think the original designs featured that technology or if it even existed at the time.
 
Raziel said:
What's hilarious is ten or twelve years ago Levy used to take heat for cycling through managers, now United and the Scum seem to be stuck in that loop while we have had two fairly long term appointments with Harry and Poch

For a manger to compete on pitch, you need to either sort the chaos off the pitch or throw lots and lots of money at it (Chelsea and Madrid model), the Scum don't have option 2.
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They need an experienced chief exec and task them with sorting the club out from top to bottom. Wenger had complete control of the club and left a huge vacuum and they filled it with inexperienced ex-players and cronies.
 
milo said:
I think that he has the ego. I doubt that he would leave Leicester mid-season. I think that it would be a mistake for him to go there. Is he worth them waiting half a season for?
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I think a caretaker with half a season with no chance of getting the job could be worse than keeping Arteta.

He may see it as his big chance to get into a club of their size and Leicester may be able to attract a decent coach enjoying upper mid table success too?
Who would have thought a few years post Wenger we’d be discussing the Leicester manager having a difficult decision to make to take over the Goons?!
 
MKSpur said:
I think a caretaker with half a season with no chance of getting the job could be worse than keeping Arteta.

He may see it as his big chance to get into a club of their size and Leicester may be able to attract a decent coach enjoying upper mid table success too?
Who would have thought a few years post Wenger we’d be discussing the Leicester manager having a difficult decision to make to take over the Goons?!
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I think he would go in a heartbeat, provided they offer the right money.

The issue is, like United is they care too much about what the fans/media think, is he enough of a name to quiet the noise in the short term that the position of the club and the acknowledgement that they are in the brick (that firing Arteta would confirm)?

Neither club would make the kind of decision Levy made, getting rid of a highly liked manager and hiring a completely polarising figure.
 
Raziel said:
I think he would go in a heartbeat, provided they offer the right money.

The issue is, like United is they care too much about what the fans/media think, is he enough of a name to quiet the noise in the short term that the position of the club and the acknowledgement that they are in the brick (that firing Arteta would confirm)?

Neither club would make the kind of decision Levy made, getting rid of a highly liked manager and hiring a completely polarising figure.
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Like when he binned Sherwood for Poch?:D
 
Raziel said:
I think he would go in a heartbeat, provided they offer the right money.

The issue is, like United is they care too much about what the fans/media think, is he enough of a name to quiet the noise in the short term that the position of the club and the acknowledgement that they are in the brick (that firing Arteta would confirm)?

Neither club would make the kind of decision Levy made, getting rid of a highly liked manager and hiring a completely polarising figure.
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I agree. It was a bold move from Levy but I like to think most people were at least open minded to the rationale for his appointment. Ole I’m sure was intended to be a stop gap, was also given his long term contract too early but has shown both a remarkable knack for getting results when he needs then and as naive as the open football can seem it also means less draws, so they could be just 2 points behind top spot if they win their game and in hand. Chelsea seem to get it right, maybe with the added help of the squad used to manager churn and the deviation from established coach to Lampard seemed to have been borne out of the transfer ‘ban’ and the uncertainty of its length. I wonder what the approach to Klopp’s eventual successor will be, if he continues to do well at Rangers I have a feeling it will be a Gerrard.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I think its no coincidence that Arsenal and Man U have struggled to move on from generational club men in Wenger and Ferguson.
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Yep, might have been smoother on both counts
if they hadn’t also replaced Dein and Gill (I’m sure Dein helped keep some of Wenger’s more extreme philosophies at bay.
 
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