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The Goon Thread

LemonadeMoney said:
He was unlucky with Hoddle, Santini, Ramos and AVB, and lucky with Jol, Redknapp and Pochettino.
But it's been a steady upward trend, and the common denominator is Levy.
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There was a ceiling that I never thought we could break thru (due to our resources and limitations in comparison)...to find someone to bust through that ceiling without the need break the bank and at a time when there are 5 genuine competitors is remarkable.

Levy believed every time previously he had the right man. Poch I would suggest is even surprising Levy. We are way ahead of schedule and well within budget and we are reall making a name for ourselves in Europe.

@galeforce .....Poch's don't grow on trees.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Yeah because he wasn’t lucky with Poch at all...
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100%. Like many I wasn't over the moon with the appointment, I didn't follow Southampton that closely and thought it might be just an other flavour of the year achievement by him down there. Whatever happens in the future I'm pleased we finally have a manager with a plan and that he can get players to follow it, makes such a change from 11 blokes running around a bit.
 
galeforce said:
It wasn’t luck, he didn’t pick a name out of a hat.
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There wasn’t a chance in hell IMO that Levy saw Poch after 5 years amanegmenwt experience and though wow.... there is the best coach in the world

I’d argue, he saw Poch and thought “I’ve heard great things, and he has helped his previous two clubs improve, he is worth a gamble”
 
Bedfordspurs said:
There wasn’t a chance in hell IMO that Levy saw Poch after 5 years amanegmenwt experience and though wow.... there is the best coach in the world

I’d argue, he saw Poch and thought “I’ve heard great things, and he has helped his previous two clubs improve, he is worth a gamble”
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I think the thought process was that Poch has a defined methodology and improves players.

It’s not that he thought he’d be “the best manager in the world” but he identified him as the “best manager for us right now”. The plan is just to keep improving.

If we are handing out credit for our progress since 2001, from flirting with relegation to repeated title challenges, there is one man at the front at the queue.
 
galeforce said:
I think the thought process was that Poch has a defined methodology and improves players.

It’s not that he thought he’d be “the best manager in the world” but he identified him as the “best manager for us right now”. The plan is just to keep improving.

If we are handing out credit for our progress since 2001, from flirting with relegation to repeated title challenges, there is one man at the front at the queue.
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Don’t disagree in what The general hasn’t done

Just that he lucked out with Poch in that he secured arguably the best young coach around when he was unknown at point in time where we had the foundations to support him

It’s like the footballing stars aligned
 
Bedfordspurs said:
There wasn’t a chance in hell IMO that Levy saw Poch after 5 years amanegmenwt experience and though wow.... there is the best coach in the world

I’d argue, he saw Poch and thought “I’ve heard great things, and he has helped his previous two clubs improve, he is worth a gamble”
Click to expand...

Levy has had a profile for some time

- Young, progressive manager that embraces a modern vision, can develop players and will make the sum greater than the parts
- He was also looking for a "system" manager that would create a style/system we could acquire players for and minimize failures in market.

Are we lucky that Poch turned out as good as he actually is = sure
Is Poch lucky that we are exactly the club, level and circumstance that suited him = sure

But it's not a fluke, and as an earlier poster said, we were unlucky with Ramos/AVB who arguably had better credentials
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Don’t disagree in what The general hasn’t done

Just that he lucked out with Poch in that he secured arguably the best young coach around when he was unknown at point in time where we had the foundations to support him

It’s like the footballing stars aligned
Click to expand...

I think luck is the wrong word, it discredits the work that has already been done.
 
There is the expression you make your own luck. Levy created the background and environment where Poch could come in and be lucky, with everything working, young players coming through, some quality international players gelling, a state of the art training facility. Likewise Poch was building a reputation where he could be seen as the right man for to take the club forward. A different manager could have failed in the same environment and Poch could have failed at a different club. Both Levy and Poch saw the mutual opportunity and built on their own hard work, which allowed them to be in a position to be lucky.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
There was a ceiling that I never thought we could break thru (due to our resources and limitations in comparison)...to find someone to bust through that ceiling without the need break the bank and at a time when there are 5 genuine competitors is remarkable.

Levy believed every time previously he had the right man. Poch I would suggest is even surprising Levy. We are way ahead of schedule and well within budget and we are reall making a name for ourselves in Europe.

@galeforce .....Poch's don't grow on trees.
Click to expand...
I think you could say that about Jol and Redknapp comparatively to where we were before them.
There is always an element of luck, but as said above, Arnesen (who recommended Jol) and Pochettino were considered appointments. So I don't think they were just plain lucky in the way that Redknapp was, who was clearly appointed to avoid relegation (and the only deviation from Levy's business plan since employing Arnesen).
I don't disagree that Poch is our best manager yet, but the three I've named have had better foundations to work with than the one before. Whoever replaces Poch will have the best foundations yet. And that is down to the steady rise under Levy.
 
ShipOfGoldblum said:
Scouting & negotiation appointments above Wenger's head this year, and wee Josh Kroenke apparently getting involved. It really does suggest a change of manager before too long, the joyous thing is that there's every chance of a dreadful choice.
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Hopefully Arsenal's own answer to Jack Sullivan.
 
LemonadeMoney said:
I think you could say that about Jol and Redknapp comparatively to where we were before them.
There is always an element of luck, but as said above, Arnesen (who recommended Jol) and Pochettino were considered appointments. So I don't think they were just plain lucky in the way that Redknapp was, who was clearly appointed to avoid relegation (and the only deviation from Levy's business plan since employing Arnesen).
I don't disagree that Poch is our best manager yet, but the three I've named have had better foundations to work with than the one before. Whoever replaces Poch will have the best foundations yet. And that is down to the steady rise under Levy.
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Arnesen was an important appointment and shows Levy was ahead in his thinking. It was unfortunate that Chelsea poached him away, but in retrospect Comolli laid some of the foundations for our future success, he just wasn't able to deliver what Jol need at the time. Despite the mocking by fans and experts about Directors of Football, they or some other form of shared responsibility has now become the norm. No one criticises Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool for not giving Pep and Klopp all the power. Wenger, a man who brought so many new ideas to the English game, is criticised for being the last relic of the manager as master of all, even though he wasn't during his successful years. None of the numerous critics of Wenger now seem to mention that the lack of a figure like Dein could explain a lot of his problems.

P.S. I'd love to know if Arnesen's plan was to bring in Jol as head coach all along. I'm convinced, or at least have managed to convince myself, that Santini was only appointed because Levy didn't think Jol had the experience for the job. Luckily Santini quit surprisingly early and allowed Jol's promotion.
 
jts1882 said:
Arnesen was an important appointment and shows Levy was ahead in his thinking. It was unfortunate that Chelsea poached him away, but in retrospect Comolli laid some of the foundations for our future success, he just wasn't able to deliver what Jol need at the time. Despite the mocking by fans and experts about Directors of Football, they or some other form of shared responsibility has now become the norm. No one criticises Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool for not giving Pep and Klopp all the power. Wenger, a man who brought so many new ideas to the English game, is criticised for being the last relic of the manager as master of all, even though he wasn't during his successful years. None of the numerous critics of Wenger now seem to mention that the lack of a figure like Dein could explain a lot of his problems.

P.S. I'd love to know if Arnesen's plan was to bring in Jol as head coach all along. I'm convinced, or at least have managed to convince myself, that Santini was only appointed because Levy didn't think Jol had the experience for the job. Luckily Santini quit surprisingly early and allowed Jol's promotion.
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I think Levy was also feeling some pressure to come up with a big name. Appointing Jol would have had the moaners out in force.
 
Santini was a real coup - he just didn't fancy it. He went back to Spain majority of the week and only really cared about the European games
 
LemonadeMoney said:
I think you could say that about Jol and Redknapp comparatively to where we were before them.
There is always an element of luck, but as said above, Arnesen (who recommended Jol) and Pochettino were considered appointments. So I don't think they were just plain lucky in the way that Redknapp was, who was clearly appointed to avoid relegation (and the only deviation from Levy's business plan since employing Arnesen).
I don't disagree that Poch is our best manager yet, but the three I've named have had better foundations to work with than the one before. Whoever replaces Poch will have the best foundations yet. And that is down to the steady rise under Levy.
Click to expand...
When we're saying 'lucked out' we certainly don't mean fluked, and certainly don't think Levy chooses a manager via lucky dip. 'Due dilligence' is Levy's middle name (along with a few others:)) and ive agreed with every appointment he's made since Jol (except Sherwood but i knew that he knew it was a stop gap) and the logic that went into it.

But i truly believe, that he believed what he was getting in AVB and Ramos was exactly what he is getting from Poch, a plan, a culture, a system. What i also believe is considering where we are financially now AND then, that Levy would be happy with a shot at a top 4 finish, and when i say shot, more than likely sneaking into 4th. Thats where we are lucky, that Poch is overacheiving splendidly, beyond the targets even Levy set.

Remember the level we are reaching has hardly been acheived by a team in a similar position to ours before. Punching well above our weight. Consistently.

I also wouldn't be so sure that things would carry on as they are if Poch left. He may leave some legacy, but the nature of football is one regime moves on and another moves in, complete with their own ideas. United struggled with Fergie going and so will the goons when Wenger leaves. And that is really the point, to find someone as good is a tough tough task....the list is short and there are no gaurantees. Poch came with a small managerial history and his performance has been so impressive that he is now 'most wanted'. Levy was still pulling a small fish out of a big pond and we've ended up with a killer whale of a manager.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
When we're saying 'lucked out' we certainly don't mean fluked, and certainly don't think Levy chooses a manager via lucky dip. 'Due dilligence' is Levy's middle name (along with a few others:)) and ive agreed with every appointment he's made since Jol (except Sherwood but i knew that he knew it was a stop gap) and the logic that went into it.

But i truly believe, that he believed what he was getting in AVB and Ramos was exactly what he is getting from Poch, a plan, a culture, a system. What i also believe is considering where we are financially now AND then, that Levy would be happy with a shot at a top 4 finish, and when i say shot, more than likely sneaking into 4th. Thats where we are lucky, that Poch is overacheiving splendidly, beyond the targets even Levy set.

Remember the level we are reaching has hardly been acheived by a team in a similar position to ours before. Punching well above our weight. Consistently.

I also wouldn't be so sure that things would carry on as they are if Poch left. He may leave some legacy, but the nature of football is one regime moves on and another moves in, complete with their own ideas. United struggled with Fergie going and so will the goons when Wenger leaves. And that is really the point, to find someone as good is a tough tough task....the list is short and there are no gaurantees. Poch came with a small managerial history and his performance has been so impressive that he is now 'most wanted'. Levy was still pulling a small fish out of a big pond and we've ended up with a killer whale of a manager.
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I'm not saying the next one will be better, Redknapp didn't follow Jol, and Poch didn't follow Redknapp. And your last paragraph could still have been about Jol and Redknapp comparatively to where we were with them.
 
I see that smarmy qunt Schezney is tweeting about us losing to Juve. Shame he wasn't playing instead of getting piles sat on the bench. With him in goal we would have won.
 
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