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The Goon Thread

Years ago I read something about how Wenger has a narrow wage structure, with young players getting high wages early. In contrast, Ferguson had a series of bans that he wouldn't cross. A number of useful players left because he didn't think them worth of a higher ban, but it kept he younger players hungry.
 
jts1882 said:
Years ago I read something about how Wenger has a narrow wage structure, with young players getting high wages early. In contrast, Ferguson had a series of bans that he wouldn't cross. A number of useful players left because he didn't think them worth of a higher ban, but it kept he younger players hungry.
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Positives and negatives with all strategies, but they've had some massive problems with theirs. A high wage floor has made it difficult for them to improve wages significantly more than once when a player has improved. And this they've lost so many players because of contract issues.

As long as them attracting top talent and developing then worked it wasn't a huge problem. But then other clubs caught up and their own production line didn't produce as much as it did.

I much prefer our approach. We basically never sign a high profile youngster on big wages for the academy. We only sign them when they're ready for the first team, and usually not players that demand huge wages. Better for the talented academy lads we already have and better for us when our good players turn great and can be given several wage increases along with contact extensions.
 
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the dza said:
I love watching them suffer, but I will say this -- if I was a gooner (perish the thought) I'd still be loyal to Wenger, because he has done so much for them. To hound him out is b0ll0cks imo, they didn't mind him staying when they were winning league titles and the likes of Madrid were sniffing around.

Yes, he has stayed on too long and should probably go, but surely they should give him a bit more respect. The way they rant and rave, you'd think he had the record of Juande Ramos or someone. It's not like they are gonna get rid of him and do miles better all of a sudden, considering the finances of the Manc Clubs and Chelsea.
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Why, would you want to play Kane at 43 because of what he did for us?

Wenger was a successful manager for them, no question, but he's a manager, not the winner of a Nobel peace prize or cured cancer. He has a job that he very well compensated for and at this point (and for some time) based on likely expectations, he's failing. I get no credit for what I achieved last year, far less 5 years ago

StephenH said:
The Arsenal/David Dein model was the best in the game, they just let personal become stale.
Wenger has been there probably ten years to long and that coincided with investment from some very poor characters.
They have run it like some elite country/golf club. Soft.
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They had good circumstance (luck)

- Wenger brought modern (at the time) thinking to the PL, plus a good knowledge of French talents
- Dein helped the FA be favorable to them and manage the business
- Wenger inherited exactly the type of players (defensive minded/tough) that he would never buy (vastly underestimated the impact those players had)

Times/players have moved on and they are floundering, Wenger's late season runs papered over cracks for years.

Danishfurniturelover said:
They are going to do a Liverpool and get a good team in a couple of seasons time. They have to much money not to be relevant again. Remember how crap we were under AVB and then 2 seasons later we were flying in the league. Decent manager and they will fly up the league.
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They have money, but not City/Chelsea or United money and arguably not much more money than us in a few years, add in Pool, it's hard to see how they can buy their way in.

You are overselling the AVB issue, Spurs as a club has progressed upward for the last decade (1 season outside top 6 in last 12 years vs. none in top 6 in previous 15 seasons), the Scum have gone the opposite direction.

It takes years, patience and luck to turn a club around (or a billion or two in investment), even Pool, Klopp is just a continuation of Rogers, same style, same game with luck around a top level striker (Suarez, now Salah)
 
Raziel said:
Why, would you want to play Kane at 43 because of what he did for us?
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I wouldn't want Kane to play for us at 43, no. But if he was 33 and still knocking in 15 league goals a season, I'd be happy for him to keep playing, especially if over the course of his career he'd blasted the club to its most successful ever period. Would you be happy for that version of Harry Kane to be hounded out of the club, despite rejecting other suitors earlier in his career when at his very best? I'd be disgusted with our fans if they did that.

Wenger, whilst in decline and staying on too long, isn't doing that badly -- they have won more trophies the past couple of years than we have the past 20. They have just been to yet another cup final. Their decline is also down to other clubs being able to outspend them (not just that, I agree that Wenger plays his part and is past his best). I do actually agree that Wenger should go, but the way some of their fans are ranting and raving at their best ever manager, who is still winning them trophies as recently as last season, is a phucking joke imo.
 
I can't see what style of play they have anymore. And it looks like the players are just asaconfused, because passes are constantly made in the opposite direction of the run, and it all looks very ad hoc.
 
the dza said:
I wouldn't want Kane to play for us at 43, no. But if he was 33 and still knocking in 15 league goals a season, I'd be happy for him to keep playing, especially if over the course of his career he'd blasted the club to its most successful ever period. Would you be happy for that version of Harry Kane to be hounded out of the club, despite rejecting other suitors earlier in his career when at his very best? I'd be disgusted with our fans if they did that.

Wenger, whilst in decline and staying on too long, isn't doing that badly -- they have won more trophies the past couple of years than we have the past 20. They have just been to yet another cup final. Their decline is also down to other clubs being able to outspend them (not just that, I agree that Wenger plays his part and is past his best). I do actually agree that Wenger should go, but the way some of their fans are ranting and raving at their best ever manager, who is still winning them trophies as recently as last season, is a phucking joke imo.
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Considering that at the start of Wenger's time they were winning titles then competing in the Champions League, with their revenue, net spend and wages, winning FA cups whilst good for us and other teams outside the big 5 is not considered "success," in terms of elite trophies; you don't see the Spanish clubs measuring the number of Kings Cups they have won as a mark of their success. No point in measuring their achievements against ours as we are coming from different places in terms of recent achievements or player acquisitions. When was the last time we bought an Aubameyang, an Ozil or an Alexis? I mean a ready made world class player. The goon fans consider their club in the elite group but they are not performing as such. Far from it they are moving in the opposite direction.
 
Wouldn't it absolutely sum up our whole existances over the last 25 years if we go through the season beating Real Madrid and winning nothing and they lose at home to Ostersunds but end up winning The Europa League!
 
Robspur12 said:
Considering that at the start of Wenger's time they were winning titles then competing in the Champions League, with their revenue, net spend and wages, winning FA cups whilst good for us and other teams outside the big 5 is not considered "success," in terms of elite trophies; you don't see the Spanish clubs measuring the number of Kings Cups they have won as a mark of their success. No point in measuring their achievements against ours as we are coming from different places in terms of recent achievements or player acquisitions. When was the last time we bought an Aubameyang, an Ozil or an Alexis? I mean a ready made world class player. The goon fans consider their club in the elite group but they are not performing as such. Far from it they are moving in the opposite direction.
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Remember when he took over though, they were drifting with Bruce Rioch in charge. He took them from that to their best ever period as a club (I don't count the 1930s, was basically a different sport then). Again, I do agree that he should move on, but I don't agree with fans jumping all over him. They have fallen behind, but have still been winning trophies. IMO, he deserves far more respect from gooner fans.

Though I'm delighted I can laugh at their meltdowns :)
 
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GPRD81 said:
Wouldn't it absolutely sum up our whole existances over the last 25 years if we go through the season beating Real Madrid and winning nothing and they lose at home to Ostersunds but end up winning The Europa League!
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They ain't good enough at the back to win the Europa League imo. Don't see how they beat a good team over 2 legs, so I don't think they'll even make the final.
 
I'm still shocked they beat Cheatski to get to the final. I know Cheatski were massively wobbling right then, but sheesh. Strange.
 
the dza said:
Remember when he took over though, they were drifting with Bruce Rioch in charge. He took them from that to their best ever period as a club (I don't count the 1930s, was basically a different sport then). Again, I do agree that he should move on, but I don't agree with fans jumping all over him. They have fallen behind, but have still been winning trophies. IMO, he deserves far more respect from gooner fans.

Though I'm delighted I can laugh at their meltdowns :)
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For the sake of debate, when Wenger picked Arsenal up they were going through a mini slump but that's all it was. Gorgeous George had won them 2 League titles FA cups League cups and a European cup winners cup. The spine of GG's team were still there when Wenger took over. Arsenal had not fallen as far when Wenger took over as say the United that Ferguson had taken over which had last won the League in the 60s I think. Poch had an even bigger task to get Spurs challenging for trophies. My point is there was life at Arsenal before Wenger, yes he deserves respect for his success but he has also been well rewarded. Since 2004 he has failed to take Arsenal to the next level in terms of competing for the elite trophies. So the fans are rightly frustrated with a guy who treats their club like a day centre substitute.
 
Wenger put in important changes. One of their famous defenders (Dixon?) made the point that he was called in to see Wenger, fearing the worst, but ended up with a pay increase along with changes to the fitness regime. Wenger extended the careers of their great back four. This was a trend that was coming, but Wenger brought it to the PL and benefited.

It should also be noted that his great success came with two players: Vieira, who he identified at an incredible price; and Bergkamp, who he inherited. All his top two finishes came with Vieira, until our finish in the Leicester season.
 
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