Thank you AVB

[the dza]

He seems like a decent bloke, and I really wanted it to work for him. It's a shame it hasn't, but that's football.

I thank him for unleashing Gareth Bale in the free-role last season, brilliant to watch!

 

[Pirate55]

I thought he was a man with a plan and given the time to get it sorted with the players settled that would have shown.

The thing is, there you can no more claim there was no evidence of his plan, or that his plan was boring football, by citing our poor home performances as I can that our ultimate plan was to play good football consistently home and away by using Sunderland away as an example. But fundamentally I just don't believe that his plan was to play boring at home and good football away, I think the plan was to do good home and away but some kinks needed to be ironed out first. If his plan was to be boring we'd see it every game, not just a selection of home games.

I understand people think he is stubborn, and refused to change, but last season he played a deep line loads. He changed it up quite a lot. This year a lot of investment had been made to get the squad how he wanted it so you can kind of understand him wanting to play his way now and he probably thought the best way to get them accostomed to playing how he needed as quickly as possible was to not give them the safety net of changes but to teach them through experience. Wenger went to Old Trafford and lost 8-2 because he didn't change his system but guys like he and AVB don't change. The difference is Wenger has multiple times through different bad patches of form been given the opportunity to put it right. We never gave the same to Andre.

Anyway, I don't think it is as simple as saying 'he should have been more forceful' if he wanted certain players. He maybe could have been, but we'll never know the dynamics of the transfer process at the club to the extent that we can draw proper conclusions there.

As you say, we will never know. But as you also said, AVB never took the opportunity to try and explain his masterplan to us fans. No doubt some will come up for an excuse for that too!

 

[glorygloryeze]

So, would you say, he lost the dressing room? Seems like a lot of players not buying in to the grand plan.

Sadly, possibly. Sometimes I wished players could get the sack as well. Apart from one or two joining us has been step UP and they sound like they're acting as though they are at Chelski or Manure and they think they should be managed by someone 'better'.


Some of this is assuming that some of the rumours YOU heard were true

 

[parklane1]

Sadly, possibly. Sometimes I wished players could get the sack as well. Apart from one or two joining us has been step UP and they sound like they're acting as though they are at Chelski or Manure and they think they should be managed by someone 'better'.


Some of this is assuming that some of the rumours YOU heard were true

A very good point.

 

[glorygloryeze]

As you say, we will never know. But as you also said, AVB never took the opportunity to try and explain his masterplan to us fans. No doubt some will come up for an excuse for that too!

Since when has a manager come out and given a seminar to the fans about his 'masterplan'???

Wenger?
SAF?
Moaninho??

If such a seminar was ever to happen that would be to the players, coaches and other club staff; they are the only ones that need to be present for that

 

[parklane1]

Since when has a manager come out and given a seminar to the fans about his 'masterplan'???

Wenger?
SAF?
Moaninho??

If such a seminar was ever to happen that would be to the players, coaches and other club staff; they are the only ones that need to be present for that

Indeed, how dare a manager not address the fans with his plans for the game and tactics for each half, how dare he. No wonder he was sacked.

 

[Pirate55]

For those wanting AVB to continue, he did himself no favours by remaining insular in his grand scheme. Did he have one? We fans will never know.

The Board obviously weren't convinced by it

 

[Lilywhite]

Was never his biggest fan, didn't like his style of football and thought it was only a matter of time until results went downhill (they did), BUT I respect him for giving it his best shot and having to deal with a **** media.

He won't go down as a hero or anything to me, but I'll remember him because he was at the helm when we sold Bale for a world record price.

Hope he does well in the future, likely back with Porto.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Indeed, how dare a manager not address the fans with his plans for the game and tactics for each half, how dare he. No wonder he was sacked.

No one's suggesting that, but he seemed very happy to discuss his footballing philosophy in detail with Daniel Sousa when that bloke was writing his dessertation. That wound up as an interview on the web and everyone immediately assumed that was the way AVB was going to set out his stable at Spurs as well. Turns out he had no intention of doing that, so it's natural some fans were confused and irritated.

Just an interview on what his general aims for games were would have done. For example, maintain possession, use passing triangles, players moving diagonally off the ball, alternating tempo, high line, sweeper keeper, inside forwards supporting the striker while wing-backs bomb down the flanks to provide width. None of that is particularly revealing in the context of a pre-match tactical head to head with your opposing manager, but yet it provides a lot of detail about how you want your teams to play. We didn't get that: as far as I can remember we got 'known for his fluid, attacking style of play' in that bland club announcement when he was appointed and that was it. So I don't blame fans for wanting a wee bit more.

 

[glorygloryeze]

No one's suggesting that, but he seemed very happy to discuss his footballing philosophy in detail with Daniel Sousa when that bloke was writing his dessertation. That wound up as an interview on the web and everyone immediately assumed that was the way AVB was going to set out his stable at Spurs as well. Turns out he had no intention of doing that, so it's natural some fans were confused and irritated.

Just an interview on what his general aims for games were would have done. For example, maintain possession, use passing triangles, players moving diagonally off the ball, alternating tempo, high line, sweeper keeper, inside forwards supporting the striker while wing-backs bomb down the flanks to provide width. None of that is particularly revealing in the context of a pre-match tactical head to head with your opposing manager, but yet it provides a lot of detail about how you want your teams to play. We didn't get that: as far as I can remember we got 'known for his fluid, attacking style of play' in that bland club announcement when he was appointed and that was it. So I don't blame fans for wanting a wee bit more.

Again, when have Wenger, SAF, Moaninho done such things?

 

[DubaiSpur]

Again, when have Wenger, SAF, Moaninho done such things?

All the time. My little brother is an Arsenal supporter (one of my biggest regrets is that I never could 'turn' him ) and used to get their garish red official magazines all the time. In them, there's always a four-page interview section with Wenger where he discusses how he's got the team adapting to the games coming up and what the vision for the season is. It's usually him going 'we need to increase the speed of our triangles more, be more incisive off the ball, utilise our width more effectively and play our high line with greater nous', but it's still more detail than AVB ever let on. Don't get me started on Mourinho and his long-winded defenses of his attacking record when he was at Madrid. 'We played the most high-intensity pressing game in La Liga, our players were extremely effective at running diagonally into spaces vacated by the defenders, blah blah blah'.

Even Ancelotti's assistant coach Paul Clement recently gave an interview about how they were training Madrid's players to move in diagonal runs off the ball to provide greater shooting opportunities near the box (due to them being ideally positioned when receiving the ball or something). I know because he mentioned Bale in that interview, which meant it popped up on Newsnow.

 

[parklane1]

No one's suggesting that, but he seemed very happy to discuss his footballing philosophy in detail with Daniel Sousa when that bloke was writing his dessertation. That wound up as an interview on the web and everyone immediately assumed that was the way AVB was going to set out his stable at Spurs as well. Turns out he had no intention of doing that, so it's natural some fans were confused and irritated.

Just an interview on what his general aims for games were would have done. For example, maintain possession, use passing triangles, players moving diagonally off the ball, alternating tempo, high line, sweeper keeper, inside forwards supporting the striker while wing-backs bomb down the flanks to provide width. None of that is particularly revealing in the context of a pre-match tactical head to head with your opposing manager, but yet it provides a lot of detail about how you want your teams to play. We didn't get that: as far as I can remember we got 'known for his fluid, attacking style of play' in that bland club announcement when he was appointed and that was it. So I don't blame fans for wanting a wee bit more.[QUOTE]


Never the fans fault though, poor precious fans.

 

[DubaiSpur]

No one's suggesting that, but he seemed very happy to discuss his footballing philosophy in detail with Daniel Sousa when that bloke was writing his dessertation. That wound up as an interview on the web and everyone immediately assumed that was the way AVB was going to set out his stable at Spurs as well. Turns out he had no intention of doing that, so it's natural some fans were confused and irritated.

Just an interview on what his general aims for games were would have done. For example, maintain possession, use passing triangles, players moving diagonally off the ball, alternating tempo, high line, sweeper keeper, inside forwards supporting the striker while wing-backs bomb down the flanks to provide width. None of that is particularly revealing in the context of a pre-match tactical head to head with your opposing manager, but yet it provides a lot of detail about how you want your teams to play. We didn't get that: as far as I can remember we got 'known for his fluid, attacking style of play' in that bland club announcement when he was appointed and that was it. So I don't blame fans for wanting a wee bit more.[/QUOTE]


Never the fans fault though, poor precious fans.

Yes, the mean old fans drove him out of the club, what with their...err..acknowledgment of his criticism regarding the flat match atmosphere and their better chanting heard during subsequent games...erm..their evil, unjustified booing of his poor, unlucky, narrow 6-0 and 5-0 defeats to City and Liverpool! No? Well, what about...err....Ah! their heckling of him during the Tromso game! What? That turned out to be a United fan from Norway? Oh....well...err...the fans must have...hmm...

Sorry, what were you blaming the fans for again? I'm saddened by AVB's sacking myself,but suggesting the fans were unjustified in asking for more clarity from the man in charge or in some way directly responsible for his sacking is quite an assertion to make.

 

[glorygloryeze]

All the time. My little brother is an Arsenal supporter (one of my biggest regrets is that I never could 'turn' him ) and used to get their garish red official magazines all the time. In them, there's always a four-page interview section with Wenger where he discusses how he's got the team adapting to the games coming up and what the vision for the season is. It's usually him going 'we need to increase the speed of our triangles more, be more incisive off the ball, utilise our width more effectively and play our high line with greater nous', but it's still more detail than AVB ever let on. Don't get me started on Mourinho and his long-winded defenses of his attacking record when he was at Madrid. 'We played the most high-intensity pressing game in La Liga, our players were extremely effective at running diagonally into spaces vacated by the defenders, blah blah blah'.

Even Ancelotti's assistant coach Paul Clement recently gave an interview about how they were training Madrid's players to move in diagonal runs off the ball to provide greater shooting opportunities near the box (due to them being ideally positioned when receiving the ball or something). I know because he mentioned Bale in that interview, which meant it popped up on Newsnow.

Ok, but still don't see it as the be-all-and-end-all for a coach in his second year at a club not currently in the top but TRYING to break in. If anything he needs to keep his cards closer to his chest than the likes of Moaninho so that he doesn't leave himself open to being countered.
Oh and Wenger hasn't won a thing for nearly 9 years. Who cares what he writes, I doubt the Arsenal fans do whilst that barren spell still rumbles on.

Case in point: SAF commonly regarded as best manager in the game. When did he write such 'tactical weekly' columns??

 

[DubaiSpur]

Ok, but still don't see it as the be-all-and-end-all for a coach in his second year at a club not currently in the top but TRYING to break in. If anything he needs to keep his cards closer to his chest than the likes of Moaninho so that he doesn't leave himself open to being countered.
Oh and Wenger hasn't won a thing for nearly 9 years. Who cares what he writes, I doubt the Arsenal fans do whilst that barren spell still rumbles on.

Case in point: SAF commonly regarded as best manager in the game. When did he write such 'tactical weekly' columns??

I agree with you: it isn't the be all and end all of a new manager in a hostile environment, and neither should it be.

However, I believe the initial assertion was that if AVB had explained what he was trying to do (and the complexity involved in doing it) to the fans a little bit more, the fans themselves would have been less inclined to question him when it all started going wrong, because they understood what he was trying to achieve. It would have helped him to reveal a bit more, is what I'm getting at.

But no, he didn't do so, and these boards were filled with 'what the hell are you doing you KNOB!' type posts from all kinds of bewildered posters (me included) ever since the annihilations began. Why was he favouring so much useless possession on the half-way line? Why was he playing a high line with Dawson in it? Why was there no movement behind Soldado?

He could have provided a short answer to each of these questions and the fans would probably have been sated. But no, he clammed up. And the world subsequently misunderstood what he was trying to do.

 

[parklane1]

Yes, the mean old fans drove him out of the club, what with their...err..acknowledgment of his criticism regarding the flat match atmosphere and their better chanting heard during subsequent games...erm..their evil, unjustified booing of his poor, unlucky, narrow 6-0 and 5-0 defeats to City and Liverpool! No? Well, what about...err....Ah! their heckling of him during the Tromso game! What? That turned out to be a United fan from Norway? Oh....well...err...the fans must have...hmm...

Sorry, what were you blaming the fans for again? I'm saddened by AVB's sacking myself,but suggesting the fans were unjustified in asking for more clarity from the man in charge or in some way directly responsible for his sacking is quite an assertion to make.

well i hope the next manager has it written in his contract that he has to explain his every move and tactic to the poor fans, will that make a diffrence, what a lot of ********.

 

[Pirate55]

I agree with you: it isn't the be all and end all of a new manager in a hostile environment, and neither should it be.

However, I believe the initial assertion was that if AVB had explained what he was trying to do (and the complexity involved in doing it) to the fans a little bit more, the fans themselves would have been less inclined to question him when it all started going wrong, because they understood what he was trying to achieve. It would have helped him to reveal a bit more, is what I'm getting at.

But no, he didn't do so, and these boards were filled with 'what the hell are you doing you KNOB!' type posts from all kinds of bewildered posters (me included) ever since the annihilations began. Why was he favouring so much useless possession on the half-way line? Why was he playing a high line with Dawson in it? Why was there no movement behind Soldado?

He could have provided a short answer to each of these questions and the fans would probably have been sated. But no, he clammed up. And the world subsequently misunderstood what he was trying to do.

That was exactly the point I was trying to make. Thank you, Dubai for putting it much more eloquently than I ever could.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I agree with you: it isn't the be all and end all of a new manager in a hostile environment, and neither should it be.

However, I believe the initial assertion was that if AVB had explained what he was trying to do (and the complexity involved in doing it) to the fans a little bit more, the fans themselves would have been less inclined to question him when it all started going wrong, because they understood what he was trying to achieve. It would have helped him to reveal a bit more, is what I'm getting at.

But no, he didn't do so, and these boards were filled with 'what the hell are you doing you KNOB!' type posts from all kinds of bewildered posters (me included) ever since the annihilations began. Why was he favouring so much useless possession on the half-way line? Why was he playing a high line with Dawson in it? Why was there no movement behind Soldado?

He could have provided a short answer to each of these questions and the fans would probably have been sated. But no, he clammed up. And the world subsequently misunderstood what he was trying to do.

As I say, it would have been a waste of his time if the players, coaches etc didn't get it. If they did, then they are all who need to here his thoughts.
Plus would most fans have understood it anyway? He would needed more time to spend refuting BS from the likes of Ashton and Samual anyway.

Don't remember Redknapp doing it; in fact he called us 'idiots'....

 

[glorygloryeze]

well i hope the next manager has it written in his contract that he has to explain his every move and tactic to the poor fans, will that make a diffrence, what a lot of ********.

This

 

[DubaiSpur]

well i hope the next manager has it written in his contract that he has to explain his every move and tactic to the poor fans, will that make a diffrence, what a lot of ********.

I'd ask you to understand the difference between doing what Wenger, Mourinho and countless other managers do (i.e, explaining their general systems and modes of play they want their players to go through) and explaining 'every move and tactic' to the poor fans, but I suspect you wouldn't listen to me anyway.

Out of curiosity, though, do you do this in real life as well? When someone asks you to hand them the water jug at the dinner table, do you slam your burly fist on the table and yell 'Oh, and I SUPPOSE I HAVE TO BECOME CEO OF THE WATER UTILITY BOARD AS WELL NOW?' before storming out to go chop down a tree or something?