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Taking us where we want to go.

harr1984 said:
How many of those lucky coaches have got three different teams playing such beautiful football whilst winning things? If it was that easy they would all be doing it. Dress it up any way you want, he is a brilliant coach....
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When he does at Spurs or Dortmund or Napoli talk to me about it. Until then he's just a lottery winner.
 
harr1984 said:
Ok youve talked me round. He's average. Im sure if he was coaching our squad we'd be struggling.....
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Do you think he'd get more out of these players than what we see or would he after a season be looking to invest in the market heavily to get the players he needs to play how he wants?

Don't think anyone could say with any certainty as he has always taken the latter route

There's obviously a very clear argument that he does well when he has the freedom to build a side in his own image, probably better than anyone atm and that's a valuable skill to have as not anyone can be successful with all the money in the world but on the flip side it's fair to discuss if he can do it without the money
 
Gutter Boy said:
I'm not sure about that. United have a very poor squad. They are handicapped by having terrible players like Jones, Smalling and Young in their back 4.

Mourinho is cynical and streetwise. That's all
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I have no doubt at all that we would have won on Saturday had Mourinho been our manager. That’s not a criticism of Poch - just an acknowledgement that Mourinho has the know how to get the job by whatever means, something Poch is still learning how to do.

By the way, am I the only one a bit worried by Poch’s silence since Saturday? With speculation surrounding his post-match comments swirling around I expected him to come out and quash any rumours at the beginning of the week, once he had calmed down. Makes me wonder if there really was more to it. I sincerely hope not.
 
Mikey10 said:
By the way, am I the only one a bit worried by Poch’s silence since Saturday? With speculation surrounding his post-match comments swirling around I expected him to come out and quash any rumours at the beginning of the week, once he had calmed down. Makes me wonder if there really was more to it. I sincerely hope not.
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Rarely hear from him outside of press conferences do we? Won't have one of them til later in the week.

Guardiola said himself that you need the best players to play the way they do (words to that effect). I'm sure he's a good coach but he didn't really have to earn the big money jobs, as Mou did in fairness to him, with some success at a smaller club, so it's difficult to see past at times.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
I have never argued that he is average, as you well know. Don't put straw man arguments up. I'm just saying that he isn't the genius some are making him out to be, that's all. When he wins a title at a club with a limited budget, then i will sit up.
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Fair play, Id stop short of calling him a genius myself. Like in any employment, when youre one of if not the best in your field you tend to go to the organsiation with the best resources. I think he would have worked similar magic with our squad, he already had a great defence to work with and plenty of technicians. But I dont want to go any deeper than that as I dont want to come across like I dont love and appreciate Poch....
 
billyiddo said:
Do you think he'd get more out of these players than what we see or would he after a season be looking to invest in the market heavily to get the players he needs to play how he wants?

Don't think anyone could say with any certainty as he has always taken the latter route

There's obviously a very clear argument that he does well when he has the freedom to build a side in his own image, probably better than anyone atm and that's a valuable skill to have as not anyone can be successful with all the money in the world but on the flip side it's fair to discuss if he can do it without the money
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Like you say I cant say with any certainty. But he invested heavily in full backs, he would have had that here. He would have already had an athletic and mobile defence,plenty of ball playing and fit midfielders and technicians. Im not sure how much investment he would have needed to do similar things to what he's done with Emirates Marketing Project, but I do think we would be capable of playing the same brand of football he endorses with this squad of players. Where that would have taken us is anyones guess.....
 
harr1984 said:
Like you say I cant say with any certainty. But he invested heavily in full backs, he would have had that here. He would have already had an athletic and mobile defence,plenty of ball playing and fit midfielders and technicians. Im not sure how much investment he would have needed to do similar things to what he's done with Emirates Marketing Project, but I do think we would be capable of playing the same brand of football he endorses with this squad of players. Where that would have taken us is anyones guess.....
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I think defense would have been ok especially the full backs as you mention, byt outside of that id expect him to want to make wholesale changes to get anywhere close to what he'd need for his style - only see Eriksen and maybe Alli surviving the cull (first XI wise anyway)

Whether or not he could adapt i don't know as there is no precedent for that with him.
 
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billyiddo said:
I think defense would have been ok especially the full backs as you mention, byt outside of that id expect him to want to make wholesale changes to get anywhere close to what he'd need for his style - only see Eriksen and maybe Alli surviving the cull (first XI wise anyway)

Whether or not he could adapt i don't know as there is no precedent for that with him.
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I think you're selling our team a little short there - I think he could stick by Dembele/Dier in the same way he has with Fernandinho who has been brilliant for him. The only massive change he'd probably want to make is getting a Modric type player maker? Another forward too, as he wasnt happy with just having Augero. But Im not sure wholesale changes would have been necessary. But on the other hand he has proven hes extremely ruthless and Im just speculating, so what do I know....
 
harr1984 said:
I think you're selling our team a little short there - I think he could stick by Dembele/Dier in the same way he has with Fernandinho who has been brilliant for him. The only massive change he'd probably want to make is getting a Modric type player maker? Another forward too, as he wasnt happy with just having Augero. But Im not sure wholesale changes would have been necessary. But on the other hand he has proven hes extremely ruthless and Im just speculating, so what do I know....
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Don't think Dier or Dembele are good enough on the ball for how he would want to play despite having attributes he would value and i don't think there would be enough pace in the attacking positions either - i get the impression his approach is very much reliant on having the best players available to pull it off, too much compromise and it won't be effective - not meaning to sell our players short just don't think Guardiola would get them playing his brand of football to a high enough standard to improve on where we are now/last season.
 
billyiddo said:
Don't think Dier or Dembele are good enough on the ball for how he would want to play despite having attributes he would value and i don't think there would be enough pace in the attacking positions either - i get the impression his approach is very much reliant on having the best players available to pull it off, too much compromise and it won't be effective - not meaning to sell our players short just don't think Guardiola would get them playing his brand of football to a high enough standard to improve on where we are now/last season.
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Fair enough,I get what youre saying there. I do think he has improved some players already there though, so would think he should have done the same with some of ours (much like Poch has done, but to tailor to his way of playing). I agree about the pace bit, our pace deficiencies were covered up with Rose and Walker charging down the wings....
 
harr1984 said:
Fair enough,I get what youre saying there. I do think he has improved some players already there though, so would think he should have done the same with some of ours (much like Poch has done, but to tailor to his way of playing). I agree about the pace bit, our pace deficiencies were covered up with Rose and Walker charging down the wings....
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Think someone like Winks would come on leaps and bounds under him tbf

Would be good to see these top level managers drop down a level or two and see if they can work their magic, you'd think the reward/satisfaction they'd get from succeeding with constraints would appeal to them.
 
billyiddo said:
Think someone like Winks would come on leaps and bounds under him tbf

Would be good to see these top level managers drop down a level or two and see if they can work their magic, you'd think the reward/satisfaction they'd get from succeeding with constraints would appeal to them.
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Yeah would be interesting to see,him and Mourinho especially. I think they would both still do well, but at the end of the day they dont really have nothing to prove and if they enjoy the glamour of only coaching the top teams then good luck to them. It doesnt mean they arent top coaches, there are difficulties in managing top clubs as you well know - theres a lot more to it than just Championship Manager style....
 
Mikey10 said:
I have no doubt at all that we would have won on Saturday had Mourinho been our manager. That’s not a criticism of Poch - just an acknowledgement that Mourinho has the know how to get the job by whatever means, something Poch is still learning how to do.

By the way, am I the only one a bit worried by Poch’s silence since Saturday? With speculation surrounding his post-match comments swirling around I expected him to come out and quash any rumours at the beginning of the week, once he had calmed down. Makes me wonder if there really was more to it. I sincerely hope not.
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we'd had a condensed run of fixtures, with the 8 day gap I expect everyone took a few days holiday
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
A lot of people on here knock you and like to take the tinkle. But you are bang on the money more often then not.
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So you dont think Guardiola has done a hard days work? You think he just turns up, goes all Harry Redknapp on his team and says' Just go run around a bit' and hey presto his teams just start playing the way they do?
 
harr1984 said:
So you dont think Guardiola has done a hard days work? You think he just turns up, goes all Harry Redknapp on his team and says' Just go run around a bit' and hey presto his teams just start playing the way they do?
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Well I was a labourer so I could teach him a thing or two about a hard days work.

But in all seriousness, yes he has good tactics but much like Mourinho he has not had to really work at his craft as he has had such an easy ride. I am sure the are just as good coaches in youth football I know a young english black coach called DJ at Brighton who can talk to you for hours about tactics and when talking to him he has picked up on stuff going on in games I did not even notice.

He will not get a top job because he does not have the fame.

Even read a match report the other day that was going on about how cool they thought Guardiola was wearing his skinny trousers and sexy jumper(the article was written by a sports reporter for the indy) Now I had no problem with a gay chap writing about sports but to much about Pep is how he looks and all that rubbish.

Also Pep was sounding off earlier in the season about how he had not spent enough money and his squad was so thin, despite having a lot of young players who had played so well for England in the summer youth football. Thought the guy was some super coach.

He is like Mourinho can only do it with money.

You want a good coach, look at Hodgson. Took over at Palace when they had lost the first 7 games, they should not even be in with a chance of staying up, but they have a very good chance. He has managed all over Europe and not just gone where the money is. Yes the England job did not go well but that job like being the leader of the tory party will destroy your soul and you wont ever achieve anything good, taken a lot of good coaches apart.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I'm not sure about that. United have a very poor squad. They are handicapped by having terrible players like Jones, Smalling and Young in their back 4.

Mourinho is cynical and streetwise. That's all
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None of them are 'terrible' players. Young has perhaps been the best attacking full back in the league this season. I thought he was more deserving of a place in the PL team of the season than Chelsea's Alonso
 
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