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Tactics Thread

Raziel said:
My question is

- With Kane, Son, Lucas, Dele, Lamela, Lo Celso, Sessegnon and if you want to count Eriksen (you have 8 attacking player options)

Can we not setup a more offensive focused side vs. a press/attacking FB model with a DM require to cover for the gaps created?

- Perhaps a counter attack model against sides that attack us?

We just seems so tactically dead, so one dimensional that unless all parts work the side looks like brick.
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Be more defensive against the like of Liverpool and City?
I really wish we would, soak up the pressure and hit on the break.
Works for Chelsea and Leicester, don't understand why we won't tbh.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Poch has never really cracked the "how to break down teams who sit deep" problem.

Our approach generally seems to be to wear them down, often with a bit of brilliance or superior fitness making the ultimate difference.

For me, when a team is in the sort of shape we are, what do you do?

Get back to basics. Work on clean sheets. Build from there.

So yes, probably a counter attacking model (for now at least) which is not a problem, we counter attack very effectively.

What we are doing now, I agree with you. Its like going through the motions to hope it comes together, but I see little sign of anything like that happening.

Pragmatism would really dictate getting back to basics and building up from there (confidence and form).

And no, I dont think a team needs new CBs and DMs to be able to be effective at the back. Usually numbers and effort will suffice.
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I agree with that, but (and there's Always a but) a team does not need new cbs to do that, but we do need to look at replacing Toby and Jan.
Not being pedantic, just making sure I'm not misquoted later on.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Poch has never really cracked the "how to break down teams who sit deep" problem.

Our approach generally seems to be to wear them down, often with a bit of brilliance or superior fitness making the ultimate difference.
Click to expand...

You're probably right. I think the phases we have rolled these teams over is just when we've been in a sparkling run of form.

nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
So yes, probably a counter attacking model (for now at least) which is not a problem, we counter attack very effectively.
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That's ok as long as the team you're playing let's you take on that roll. But I suppose if we're not that good ourselves the opposition may abandon the park the bus tactic (especially at the lane)

nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
And no, I dont think a team needs new CBs and DMs to be able to be effective at the back. Usually numbers and effort will suffice.
Click to expand...

We are obviously going to have to look at those two areas in the next two windows, but Sissoko, Ndombele and maybe Winks/Skipp can surely give enough protection to the CH. And thinking about it if we adopt a more counter attacking approach then we will be in a deeper block position more often that not only offers more all round protection but also keeps the FBs doing more defensive duties rather than asking them to bomb on and do something they're sh.it at:)

Plus we have looked quite good on the counter when forced more into that tactic. Having said that Son probably not gonna be around for 3 games
 
glasgowspur said:
I agree with that, but (and there's Always a but) a team does not need new cbs to do that, but we do need to look at replacing Toby and Jan.
Not being pedantic, just making sure I'm not misquoted later on.
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Ha! Not a problem.

I dont deny we need to look to buy a CB or two. My point was more framed around the here and now, and the expected retort of needing to buy 5 players before we can expect to play well again.


ricky2tricky4city said:
You're probably right. I think the phases we have rolled these teams over is just when we've been in a sparkling run of form.
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That or an early goal. If we can tease a team to open up a bit we can rip them apart, but traditionally all through Pochs tenure we have struggled to break down the bus parking sides. Which, of course, we face more of the better we get.

I think we reached a point where we could expect to beat just about any team that turned up to the match looking to play football.


ricky2tricky4city said:
That's ok as long as the team you're playing let's you take on that roll. But I suppose if we're not that good ourselves the opposition may abandon the park the bus tactic (especially at the lane)
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Firstly, right now, I fully expect teams to fancy themselves against us - and so yes, open up a bit.

Secondly, I think its part of the tactic to allow space, invite the team on etc to then be effective in counter attacking.

Its what AVB used to term as "provoking" the opposition.

All part of the process, IMO.

First you sit deeper, keep a compact defensive shape, and secondly you allow the opposition to come at you...


ricky2tricky4city said:
We are obviously going to have to look at those two areas in the next two windows, but Sissoko, Ndombele and maybe Winks/Skipp can surely give enough protection to the CH. And thinking about it if we adopt a more counter attacking approach then we will be in a deeper block position more often that not only offers more all round protection but also keeps the FBs doing more defensive duties rather than asking them to bomb on and do something they're sh.it at:)

Plus we have looked quite good on the counter when forced more into that tactic. Having said that Son probably not gonna be around for 3 games
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Exactly!

Theres no denial that reinforcements would be a benefit, only the idea that they arent essential to us playing better now.
 
Whatever it is, I just hope he backs it with a run of games. The side needs to bed in, sure make mistakes, but then correct them. Get into a rhythm, get used to each others runs, where to position yourself defending in relation to others etc We've missed that.
 
AjaxDeSuperYids said:
Not sure what the point is in discussing this as Poch wont do it but with our current struggles would we benefit from going to a 433 ultra direct style like pool with:

Lo Celso, Sissoko, Ndombele
Lucas, Kane, Son

Probably worth a try.
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Who would you play along the back lin? Rose and Foyth at FB? Sanchez and Verts/Toby. Dier covering Sissoko.
 
Gunna throw this out there but Kane behind Alli. Look at Kane for England, he is awesome. For us he doesn't get involved enough as he is too high up
 
We have a lot of good players, but also a lot of players with flaws. It is a conundrum to come up with a formation which hides those flaws.

I'm sure every other team has a boatload of flaws too, it is not unique to Spurs.

E.g. Leicester are said to have brilliant full backs in Chilwell and Perreira, but if they were at Spurs we would realise their flaws e.g. slow to turn, unaware, caught too high up the pitch, useless in the air, bottle challenges, clumsy, can't cross, always pass backwards or whatever it was, we would know it...

So. Our full backs are not great, and we should stop expecting them to be great.

They cannot get up and down the whole wing all game, they cannot both defend and attack.

So right now I guess I would choose the 4 best defenders, and tell them to forget the wing play and dribbling and crossing...get the defenders to defend and push on 15 yards, not 50.

A back 5 of four ACTUAL defenders with Dier sitting in front (because our centre backs have been left exposed way too often) uses up half the spots immediately.

..................Keeper
RightBack Centre Centre LeftBack
...................Dier

That 5 is "enough" defense... if we also play Winks or Sissoko that is just too many defenders who never score...

So we need some midfielders who can genuinely link the back to front, which (omitting Winks, Sissoko, Eriksen) simply has to be

............LoCelso Ndom

And then we have 3 other spots so I guess we just lump in Lamela or Moura or Alli, all of which have big flaws... e.g.
...............Alli
............Kane ............................................Son wide left, not on Kane's toes

Oh brick, I've just described the diamond. FML

Maybe we forget Alli because we've got LoCelso and Ndom supplying Kane and Son... so we bin off Alli and throw in Winks or Sissy but then they would be holding Dier's hand and getting in the way of distribution. It's a shame Moura isn't a bit better, to play right side forward like Salah.
 
billyiddo said:
Gazza
Foyth Sanchez Davies Sessegnon
Dier
Ndombele Lo Celso
Alli
Kane Son

​
Dier dropping in to form a back 3, Foyth allowed to support, Sessegnon allowed to attack, Ndombele and Lo Celso as a double pivot of sorts with Alli and Son playing off of Kane - beautiful

​
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Yeah, I'm liking it on paper BUT when teams can overload us down the flanks, we look pants. When we play so narrow, we end up with big problems out wide... and that is why the 4-4-fackin-2 works so well i.e. you cover the whole pitch effectively, with each player having a very clear role and no excuses to stay forward and not work back.

Football would be so easy if it was 13-a-side, dammit.
 
Edit - Kane summed up my feelings in the Guardian article someone posted earlier

“I’m not quite sure how Olympiakos’s first goal happened; how they got through so easily. But especially away from home in the Champions League, you have to knit together, make sure you don’t concede one way or another – whether that’s being more compact, going a bit more direct and seeing out the clock or something else."

I.e. we need to do one thing or the other, be compact with a low block or genuinely press as a team and move everyone forward together, or split in 2 and have a defensive block with some runners into channels... at present we are a muddy mix of all sorts.
 
billyiddo said:
Gazza
Foyth Sanchez Davies Sessegnon
Dier
Ndombele Lo Celso
Alli
Kane Son

​
Dier dropping in to form a back 3, Foyth allowed to support, Sessegnon allowed to attack, Ndombele and Lo Celso as a double pivot of sorts with Alli and Son playing off of Kane - beautiful

​
Click to expand...

That team looks good to me mate.
 
Bullet said:
Edit - Kane summed up my feelings in the Guardian article someone posted earlier

“I’m not quite sure how Olympiakos’s first goal happened; how they got through so easily. But especially away from home in the Champions League, you have to knit together, make sure you don’t concede one way or another – whether that’s being more compact, going a bit more direct and seeing out the clock or something else."

I.e. we need to do one thing or the other, be compact with a low block or genuinely press as a team and move everyone forward together, or split in 2 and have a defensive block with some runners into channels... at present we are a muddy mix of all sorts.
Click to expand...

My concern on Saturday is that the players didn't seem to know which they should be doing. For the Sheffield goal, the whole team were sitting off except for Son and Lo Celso. Son was closing down and the chance came when Lo Celso went to ground and didn't win the tackle, giving them the extra man.
 
billyiddo said:
Gazza
Foyth Sanchez Davies Sessegnon
Dier
Ndombele Lo Celso
Alli
Kane Son

​
Dier dropping in to form a back 3, Foyth allowed to support, Sessegnon allowed to attack, Ndombele and Lo Celso as a double pivot of sorts with Alli and Son playing off of Kane - beautiful

​
Click to expand...
I like the cut of your Jib. But I would like to see a place for KWP. I think Davies is too slow for a Center back in a pairing. So I would go like this:

Gazza
KWP Foyth Sanchez Sessegnon
Dier
Ndombele Lo Celso
Alli
Kane Son​
 
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