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Steven Bergwijn

Kandi1977 said:
He's not just doing a defensive job! He WAS CRUCIAL to the 2nd goal yesterday. He was out wide when Kane received the ball, and Bergwijn made a run infield to drag the left back with him. This led to Kane having free space in front of him, to be able to make the pass to Son. Without that run, Kane would have had a much tougher time to be able to cross, if at all.
These are things that the average fan does not see, think through nor appreciate, but actions that nonetheless are crucial.
My guess is that Mourinho was well pleased with that, as it's probably a scenario they have been working on.
Add to that, he also created the pelanty for the first goal. So, crucial contribution to 2 of 3 goals....
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Im not saying he is playing crap week in week out. But I would like to see more from him in terms of goals, chances created etc. I don’t think that is being unreasonable. Son and Kane are clear first choice players, the other spot is up for grabs so I’d be up for Bergwijn or Alli to be given a run of games over the next 6-8 games and see who comes out on top.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Sorry to cut your post down to size but I’m really puzzled as to why this is controversial? I’m happy with his defensive contributions to the team but I would like to see more from him at the other end of the pitch given that he is an attacking player. He’s not scored a goal in 19 appearances. He’s not hiding and is putting himself in positions to score so I give him credit for that, but I would like to see him score, create and not have attacks break down when he gets the ball. I get the impression that many on here and on social media are rallying around him because of the abuse he copped after the Liverpool game. Let me just say I condemn any abuse of any kind, I’ve always said it usually comes from people who have nothing else in their lives except football. That’s totally fine but we still have to be allowed to criticise aspects of a player’s game just as we would with Moura, Bale or anyone else.

If you are happy with his attacking output then I guess we will have to leave it there.
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Because he is a young guy in a new league who is only approaching being here for one year. Even in today’s football fan society of wanting everything now it constantly amazes me how critical people are prepared to be of players/managers without seeing the bigger picture. Then fast forward another year or so and the thread is full of ‘well he’s proving me wrong’ posts surprise surprise, and I’m not just talking about our players and fans - you find these cases constantly around all teams. A signing of Bergwijn’s profile isn’t with the expectation of him tearing it up in his first year - at this stage it’s all about acclimatising to the league and it’s demands and the facts he’s turning himself into a regular speaks volumes. He has shown plenty of good moments, more than enough to be confident if his development continues as it should he will be a big player for us. Sure he’s going through a barren run in front of goal. It happens, I’d be almost more concerned if he didn’t have these experiences at his age. Nothing to see here....
 
harr1984 said:
Because he is a young guy in a new league who is only approaching being here for one year. Even in today’s football fan society of wanting everything now it constantly amazes me how critical people are prepared to be of players/managers without seeing the bigger picture. Then fast forward another year or so and the thread is full of ‘well he’s proving me wrong’ posts surprise surprise, and I’m not just talking about our players and fans - you find these cases constantly around all teams. A signing of Bergwijn’s profile isn’t with the expectation of him tearing it up in his first year - at this stage it’s all about acclimatising to the league and it’s demands and the facts he’s turning himself into a regular speaks volumes. He has shown plenty of good moments, more than enough to be confident if his development continues as it should he will be a big player for us. Sure he’s going through a barren run in front of goal. It happens, I’d be almost more concerned if he didn’t have these experiences at his age. Nothing to see here....
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All valid points. However I’m still confused as to what was so controversial in my initial post? I said that I’m happy to give him more time. If I had said “he’s brick, sell him” or “bad signing” then I’d perhaps understand more. He’s been a good signing so far, not great but far from poor. Is he good enough for where we want to be going forward? Time will tell and which is why I said I’m a happy to give him more time. If some have already decided he’s exactly what we need then great. And to be honest I think the best part of a year is a reasonable amount of time to make a judgement on a player, for example the majority have written of Gedson after a similar amount of time. That doesn’t mean writing someone off in Bergwijn’s case.
 
Jurgen the German said:
All valid points. However I’m still confused as to what was so controversial in my initial post? I said that I’m happy to give him more time. If I had said “he’s brick, sell him” or “bad signing” then I’d perhaps understand more. He’s been a good signing so far, not great but far from poor. Is he good enough for where we want to be going forward? Time will tell and which is why I said I’m a happy to give him more time. If some have already decided he’s exactly what we need then great. And to be honest I think the best part of a year is a reasonable amount of time to make a judgement on a player, for example the majority have written of Gedson after a similar amount of time. That doesn’t mean writing someone off in Bergwijn’s case.
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You said you’re willing to give him more time, it just doesn’t even need to be a conversation to be had a this stage - who do you think would be questioning whether he should be given more time or not right now? Clubs rarely sign a player and get rid of them after a year (obviously there are cases of this happening) because they know it takes a while to acclimatise to everything and perform to their best abilities. Gedson is a different thing, even when we have injuries he doesn’t get a look in so it’s pretty obvious Mourinho doesn’t fancy him....
 
harr1984 said:
You said you’re willing to give him more time, it just doesn’t even need to be a conversation to be had a this stage - who do you think would be questioning whether he should be given more time or not right now? Clubs rarely sign a player and get rid of them after a year (obviously there are cases of this happening) because they know it takes a while to acclimatise to everything and perform to their best abilities. Gedson is a different thing, even when we have injuries he doesn’t get a look in so it’s pretty obvious Mourinho doesn’t fancy him....
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Well this forum is an outlet for voicing opinions about spurs. Whether other people are questioning him isn’t really my concern. It’s an opinion. I said it because I’m not convinced about him as an attacking player but he could quite easily score in the next game and go on a run of scoring lots of goals and creating chances so I’m happy to see how he develops over the rest of the season. If he continues to do a job defensively but offers little at the other end, others may be happy to say he’s playing brilliantly even if he doesn’t score or create and that’s their right. I’ve not responded to anyone directly criticising fans who believe he’s playing really well.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Well this forum is an outlet for voicing opinions about spurs. Whether other people are questioning him isn’t really my concern. It’s an opinion. I said it because I’m not convinced about him as an attacking player but he could quite easily score in the next game and go on a run of scoring lots of goals and creating chances so I’m happy to see how he develops over the rest of the season. If he continues to do a job defensively but offers little at the other end, others may be happy to say he’s playing brilliantly even if he doesn’t score or create and that’s their right. I’ve not responded to anyone directly criticising fans who believe he’s playing really well.
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By saying you’re willing to give him more time that implies there is a question about whether he should be given more time does it not? At this stage I don’t see how that can be in question, whether you only think he’s been performing rather averagely or better....
 
harr1984 said:
Because he is a young guy in a new league who is only approaching being here for one year. Even in today’s football fan society of wanting everything now it constantly amazes me how critical people are prepared to be of players/managers without seeing the bigger picture. Then fast forward another year or so and the thread is full of ‘well he’s proving me wrong’ posts surprise surprise, and I’m not just talking about our players and fans - you find these cases constantly around all teams. A signing of Bergwijn’s profile isn’t with the expectation of him tearing it up in his first year - at this stage it’s all about acclimatising to the league and it’s demands and the facts he’s turning himself into a regular speaks volumes. He has shown plenty of good moments, more than enough to be confident if his development continues as it should he will be a big player for us. Sure he’s going through a barren run in front of goal. It happens, I’d be almost more concerned if he didn’t have these experiences at his age. Nothing to see here....
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tickle my balls with a feather well said.
 
harr1984 said:
By saying you’re willing to give him more time that implies there is a question about whether he should be given more time does it not? At this stage I don’t see how that can be in question, whether you only think he’s been performing rather averagely or better....
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It’s not implying anything. I have no idea what Jose or the coaches think about Bergwijn or how highly they rate him. I’m just saying I expect more of him going forward but happy to wait and see over the rest of the this season at the minimum.
 
billyiddo said:
1 goal in 19 as an attacking player is poor, no two ways about it and for all his defensive contribution unless he improves that area of his game it is where he will be ultimately judged.

What's his creative output like?
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Hopefully he just needs to regain full fitness plus a goal will get his confidence back, as Bergwijn scored 3 in his first 6 Premier League appearances but now looking as goal shy as Lamela.
 
Have you noticed how he always seems to try and set up Kane? I mean Harry must be happy with it but I wonder if he builds his confidence and finds some form if he will become a bit more selfish?
 
SteveAWOL said:
Suppose he's our Firminho, in that he does the thankless legwork which allows other 2 attackers to score shed loads.
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Firmino doesn’t get enough goals and is vastly overrated by Liverpool fans but he does get his share of assists and creates a lot. Don't know what Bergwijn's stats are but i don't recall him getting too many assists.
 
I think Bergwijn is a very good player. He seems to be two footed, I like his movement, he has good body strength, a good burst of initial acceleration, is prepared to work hard and seems to play with his head up. I like the fact that he gets into goal scoring positions in just about every game he plays, I think the finishing will come as he gets more confidence and starts to take a bit more time.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I think Bergwijn is a very good player. He seems to be two footed, I like his movement, he has good body strength, a good burst of initial acceleration, is prepared to work hard and seems to play with his head up. I like the fact that he gets into goal scoring positions in just about every game he plays, I think the finishing will come as he gets more confidence and starts to take a bit more time.
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Agreed. Seems to have a fairly wide range of qualities, if that clicks together with more time to adjust and develop, as well as more confidence I think he could be an excellent player.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Firmino doesn’t get enough goals and is vastly overrated by Liverpool fans but he does get his share of assists and creates a lot. Don't know what Bergwijn's stats are but i don't recall him getting too many assists.
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Assists is one of the stats that has great prominence put on it but in reality only tells a small piece of the story. For me it’s more important about an attackers movement that creates space for either himself or others, and the general creativity that the player provides. Bergwijn running with and without the ball is very good, isn’t wasteful in possession and works hard - I think whilst he hasn’t set the world on fire we have a very good player on our hands who is going to get better and better with more experience in this league....
 
billyiddo said:
1 goal in 19 as an attacking player is poor, no two ways about it and for all his defensive contribution unless he improves that area of his game it is where he will be ultimately judged.

What's his creative output like?
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I don’t see how anyone can argue with this. He needs to score and assist more. I like the lad, he does a lot of good work but he needs to produce more as an attacker. He’s young so deserves time and chances to do it but if we’re sitting here next year and his goals/assist ratio is the same, we’d be stupid not to ask serious questions.

He’s lucky at the moment that none of the other attackers are firing because if they were, he’d be benched. Let’s hope he takes advantage because I believe there is a player in there.
 
DeanoAustin said:
I don’t see how anyone can argue with this. He needs to score and assist more. I like the lad, he does a lot of good work but he needs to produce more as an attacker. He’s young so deserves time and chances to do it but if we’re sitting here next year and his goals/assist ratio is the same, we’d be stupid not to ask serious questions.

He’s lucky at the moment that none of the other attackers are firing because if they were, he’d be benched. Let’s hope he takes advantage because I believe there is a player in there.
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He's not even been that great off the ball tbh, he's just the one tasked with doing the donkey work but ultimately we don't really press from the front as a team so not much for him to do in that regard and he doesn't do much defensively anyway when we're sat back, he doesn't really block or intercept at a noticeably good rate (much lower than Dele for example who people complain about defensively for some reason) he's an out ball but doesn't really create chances or play through balls - I'm a little confused as to what his role is supposed to be and what people think he's doing well? Making runs off the ball to stretch the opposition defense seems to be the long and short of what he does well.


It could well be that the tactics have been stifling his contributions tbf
 
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