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Son Heung-Min

i think it was more a tactical switch than having to fit in certain individuals (if that's what you meant?) we're a better team both defensively and offensively in 3421 than 4231. It gives Rose and Walker the freedom to attack and also allows Dier and Vertonghen to push in to midfield to support our attacking play, safe in the knowledge that Alderweireld and Wanyama can mop up any problems.

i agree, right now i cant see us switching back regularly to 4231 but then this time last season im not sure many thought we needed to change from 4231, which was working quite well at the time - but we did, so who knows what will pan out - i think that we are well versed in both setups now and this is an added strength of ours going in to next season. If you think back to last season we had a slow start getting used to the way we wanted to play and then again this season another slow start (in comparison to the rest of the seasons performance) as we got used to 3421, so maybe next season will see us start stronger as we're more comfortable with how we want to play from the off.

I don't think that Poch is wedded to a formation. I think that he picks a formation that makes best use of his best players. This season that has been 3-4-2-1, last it was 4-2-3-1. I suspect that he would be open to changes again in the future depending on who he has available but given the same squad and everyone being fully fit, i cannot see a permanent switch back to 4-2-3-1.
 
I don't think that Poch is wedded to a formation. I think that he picks a formation that makes best use of his best players. This season that has been 3-4-2-1, last it was 4-2-3-1. I suspect that he would be open to changes again in the future depending on who he has available but given the same squad and everyone being fully fit, i cannot see a permanent switch back to 4-2-3-1.

nor I, but i think there's a clear tactical difference between how we set up in 3421 and how we do/did in 4231, so when i say 4231/3421 its the tactical approach rather than the formation that im referring to (its just an easy way to differentiate).
 
nor I, but i think there's a clear tactical difference between how we set up in 3421 and how we do/did in 4231, so when i say 4231/3421 its the tactical approach rather than the formation that im referring to (its just an easy way to differentiate).

Yeah. Maybe losing Lamela and having both Dier and Wanyama just made the decision easier.
 
Rhythm is a dancer,
Heung Min Son's the answer,
cause he can score from anywhere.

raise you hands and voices,
sing along and join us,
cause he'll score from Everywhere!!

oh oh he's a yido
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1f3b6.png
1f3b6.png

:D
 
People forget that this guy was possibly the top attacking player in Germany before we signed him. The Bundesliga is a super strong league, stronger than the EPL in many ways I believe.

It should come as no surprise that he's demonstrating the quality that he does. We actually got him for a very reasonable price when you think about it.

I reckon he's a player that many didn't fully understand or appreciate when we signed him.

Glad to see that's changing almost universally among our fans.
 
People forget that this guy was possibly the top attacking player in Germany before we signed him. The Bundesliga is a super strong league, stronger than the EPL in many ways I believe.

It should come as no surprise that he's demonstrating the quality that he does. We actually got him for a very reasonable price when you think about it.

I reckon he's a player that many didn't fully understand or appreciate when we signed him.

Glad to see that's changing almost universally among our fans.

Nah. Make no mistake, I loved it when we signed him because I thought he was a talent that we weren't really high-profile enough to snatch - he was (and remains) young, two-footed, pacy, direct, hard-working, the ideal inside forward for a Poch side. He was playing for Leverkusen, who were in the CL then and seemingly had no reason to sell him - and there was seemingly no reason for him to make what seemed like a sideways or even somewhat downward move to Tottenham, then only a Europa League side. Despite all that, though, he signed, and I was delighted when we pulled it off.

But he wasn't the best attacking player in Germany at the time. He wasn't even Leverkusen's top scorer in 14/15 (that title belonged to Karim Bellarabi, I believe), and the likes of Aubameyang, Muller and even Bas Dost had outscored him in 14/15, to say nothing of established superstars like Lewandowksi and Robben - while the likes of De Bruyne, Firmino and Max Kruse put up many more assists than him (he wasn't really an assists-type of player, a fact that remains in evidence today, I think).

We got Son for a relatively reasonable price that I was nonetheless surprised we were willing to pay (22.5 million quid after the previous summer where we'd cheaped out and bought Stambouli and Fazio seemed...out of character). His possible military service issues aside, he's been and will continue to be a good investment by the club. He was at the upper limit of the type of players we could feasibly make a move for. For all these reasons, he's been a good signing. The type I would like to see us replicate a bit more. But he had flaws to his game then that he still has now (decision-making, inconsistency et al) that precluded him from being 'top bracket'.
 
Nah. Make no mistake, I loved it when we signed him because I thought he was a talent that we weren't really high-profile enough to snatch - he was (and remains) young, two-footed, pacy, direct, hard-working, the ideal inside forward for a Poch side. He was playing for Leverkusen, who were in the CL then and seemingly had no reason to sell him - and there was seemingly no reason for him to make what seemed like a sideways or even somewhat downward move to Tottenham, then only a Europa League side. Despite all that, though, he signed, and I was delighted when we pulled it off.

But he wasn't the best attacking player in Germany at the time. He wasn't even Leverkusen's top scorer in 14/15 (that title belonged to Karim Bellarabi, I believe), and the likes of Aubameyang, Muller and even Bas Dost had outscored him in 14/15, to say nothing of established superstars like Lewandowksi and Robben - while the likes of De Bruyne, Firmino and Max Kruse put up many more assists than him (he wasn't really an assists-type of player, a fact that remains in evidence today, I think).

We got Son for a relatively reasonable price that I was nonetheless surprised we were willing to pay (22.5 million quid after the previous summer where we'd cheaped out and bought Stambouli and Fazio seemed...out of character). His possible military service issues aside, he's been and will continue to be a good investment by the club. He was at the upper limit of the type of players we could feasibly make a move for. For all these reasons, he's been a good signing. The type I would like to see us replicate a bit more. But he had flaws to his game then that he still has now (decision-making, inconsistency et al) that precluded him from being 'top bracket'.

Notwithstanding that, I think you will agree, he was and is an absolute steal at the we paid for him.
 
Notwithstanding that, I think you will agree, he was and is an absolute steal at the we paid for him.

Yep. *Provided* he either defers or otherwise exempts himself from his military service - best way would be to win a medal with Korea or otherwise place 3rd at the WC in 2018. If not, then it's a bit trickier, because he will have to go for his service by 2018 at the latest if he wants to fit the '2 years before you turn 28' criteria, and we'll only have gotten three years out of him prior to his enforced absence.
 
One other point I'd add @DubaiSpur is that he's not just about goal return, he's a creator as much as he is a finisher.

I never claimed he was the top scorer in the league, but possibly the top attacking player.

I don't have the stats on hand (and I'll stand corrected) but I reckon he'd have created more (assists, chances created) than the likes of Dost and Aubameyang, who largely play centrally.

Glad we can agree that all in all he's a worthwhile investment and a fantastically gifted player with great potential.
 
One other point I'd add @DubaiSpur is that he's not just about goal return, he's a creator as much as he is a finisher.

I never claimed he was the top scorer in the league, but possibly the top attacking player.

I don't have the stats on hand (and I'll stand corrected) but I reckon he'd have created more (assists, chances created) than the likes of Dost and Aubameyang, who largely play centrally.

Glad we can agree that all in all he's a worthwhile investment and a fantastically gifted player with great potential.


Goals (2014/2015) -

http://www.espnfc.us/german-bundesliga/10/statistics/scorers?season=2014

Assists (same year) -

http://www.espnfc.us/german-bundesliga/10/statistics/assists?season=2014

He actually assisted fewer goals than either Aubameyang or Dost ,going by that list - he wasn't even in the top fifty players with the most assists in 2014/2015. He was fairly high up in the goalscoring list (with 11 - one behind his team-mate Bellarabi and eight behind leading scorer Alex Meier), but I don't think we bought him for his chance creation abilities. He was one of the better offensive players in the Bundesliga, no doubt - maybe up there in the second bracket behind the very best (who were and remain Aubemeyang, Muller, Lewandowski, Robben et al). And he definitely was a relative coup for us, since we were probably (slightly) worse off in our own league when compared to where Leverkusen were when we signed him.
 
Its amazing how people don't get Levy/club is actually very good at buying quality. Carrick, Berbatov, Modric, VDV, Lloris, Jan, Eriksen, Toby, Wanyama, Son (without even including the players introduced via youth system in Rose, Walker, Kane, etc. or decent squad players like Davies, Trippier, Chadli). Yes, some fail, but if for every GKN & Sissoko you get a Wanyama, for every N'Jie you get a Toby, a hit rate of one top quality player a season is almost unheard of, especially when operating within a realistic budget.

As long as Son is happy being part of the squad and not demanding a start every game, he's an extremely valuable player for us and will get lots of game time.
 
Its amazing how people don't get Levy/club is actually very good at buying quality. Carrick, Berbatov, Modric, VDV, Lloris, Jan, Eriksen, Toby, Wanyama, Son (without even including the players introduced via youth system in Rose, Walker, Kane, etc. or decent squad players like Davies, Trippier, Chadli). Yes, some fail, but if for every GKN & Sissoko you get a Wanyama, for every N'Jie you get a Toby, a hit rate of one top quality player a season is almost unheard of, especially when operating within a realistic budget.

As long as Son is happy being part of the squad and not demanding a start every game, he's an extremely valuable player for us and will get lots of game time.

Personally I can see Son developing to a point where he should be demanding to start every game. Hopefully anyway.
 
Its amazing how people don't get Levy/club is actually very good at buying quality. Carrick, Berbatov, Modric, VDV, Lloris, Jan, Eriksen, Toby, Wanyama, Son (without even including the players introduced via youth system in Rose, Walker, Kane, etc. or decent squad players like Davies, Trippier, Chadli). Yes, some fail, but if for every GKN & Sissoko you get a Wanyama, for every N'Jie you get a Toby, a hit rate of one top quality player a season is almost unheard of, especially when operating within a realistic budget.

As long as Son is happy being part of the squad and not demanding a start every game, he's an extremely valuable player for us and will get lots of game time.

A) Rose and Walker were both buys - okay, young players bought for low fees, but they didn't come through our ranks, and it shows in their club affiliations (I believe Walker still supports Sheffield and Rose still cheers for Leeds).

B) That's a good list, but it ignores the greater number of cheap bargains and transfer flops that we've also picked up - I'd wager our actual success:failure ratio in terms of on-pitch impact is more like 1:2, which is still decent, but not as spectacular as a 1:1 ratio would be. What skews it is Levy's incredible ability to squeeze big fees out of clubs for even our bit-part players.
 
A) Rose and Walker were both buys - okay, young players bought for low fees, but they didn't come through our ranks, and it shows in their club affiliations (I believe Walker still supports Sheffield and Rose still cheers for Leeds)..

Rose was in Leeds Youth/Senior team for two years total.. He didn't play one senior league game for them. I'm not sure how long he was apart of their academy.

But he's been here for ten years now and was involved in our youth squad when he first arrived, I believe.. I'd be very surprised if his allegiances didn't lie with us first and foremost.
 
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Rose was at Leeds for two years total, including his time in the youth squad.. He didn't play one senior game for them.

He's been here for ten years now and was involved in our youth setup when he first arrived, I believe.. I'd be very surprised if his allegiances didn't lie with us first and foremost.

I thought so too, but I seem to dimly remember an interview a while back where he mentioned that he still supports Leeds. Could be wrong, though. Also, Google threw up an archived link from 2007 (on the second page of search results I was able to dig up for a combination of 'danny rose' and 'leeds') where the Leeds Service Crew trogs were moaning on their forum (apparently they have one just for their own odious d*ckhead clique) about Rose wanting to move on. There was a lot of disgustingly apparent racism flying around on that thread, although thankfully at least half of them were calling out the other half for being racist pond scum, instead of just the regular variety. But the point was that they thought he was forcing a move, jumping ship, etcetera. So maybe his departure wasn't amicable enough to leave a lasting fondness for the club, although Lord knows using LSC to represent Leeds as a whole isn't fair on the club or the vast majority of non-d*ckhead fans.
 
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A) Rose and Walker were both buys - okay, young players bought for low fees, but they didn't come through our ranks, and it shows in their club affiliations (I believe Walker still supports Sheffield and Rose still cheers for Leeds).

B) That's a good list, but it ignores the greater number of cheap bargains and transfer flops that we've also picked up - I'd wager our actual success:failure ratio in terms of on-pitch impact is more like 1:2, which is still decent, but not as spectacular as a 1:1 ratio would be. What skews it is Levy's incredible ability to squeeze big fees out of clubs for even our bit-part players.
You're probably right about the ratio of flops to bargains over a longer period but there's no question that trend has been dramatically reversed since Poch's arrival.

So let's have a look

Hits

Alderweireld
Son
Wanyama
Davies
Vorm
Dier
Alli
Trippier

Jury out/too soon to judge

Janssen
Wimmer
N'koudou
Sissoko

Misses

N'Jie
Yedlin
Fazio
Stambouli

Fazio and Stambouli had decent spells so no way could you call them out-and-out flops. N'jie had his moments too and though very unlikely could still return and be successful. Yedlin was probably a very cheap buy (fee undisclosed) who managed just the one appearance.

So not one out-and-out flop since Poch's arrival but several fantastic bargains.
 
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