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Son Heung-Min

DeanoAustin said:
It may have, it may not. It still would have been 0-1 after 1 a minute which was the game changer. Lucas is also not exactly the most reliable of players - he missed our best chance that night IIRC (not that it was easy). Kane also wasn't out of form, he was just returning from injury.

I would have played Lucas that night. Not sure where but I wouldn't have played him over Harry. Harry is, and was, absolutely world class. It's the biggest game in your club's history, I can 100% understand why Poch went with the team he did.
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I would have dropped Alli and played Moura instead. Said it at the time and I stand by it.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Subbing off is fine. Sometimes you have to haul players off it is isn’t happening for them. But benching for Bergwijn? Nah, not for me. His form wasn’t that bad and that prolonged to warrant it IMO.
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Dropping him is a tough one because of his understanding with harry, we're losing more than one player. We also need to weigh up does he need a rest, would Bergwijn benefit from the minutes, would it be good for Kane and Bergwijn to have time to develop a better understanding.
That might be useful should Sonny be injured and we need Bergwijn to step in.
Its never as easy as it seems to us sitting on a forum, i trust conte to know what he is doing, and it certainly seems to be working.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I would have dropped Alli and played Moura instead. Said it at the time and I stand by it.
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And I may have done the same if I had to pick one of Kane, Son, Alli and Eriksen to drop although I think I was advocating for the team that Poch actually picked now I think back. At that point, Alli was declining and his influence waning but it would have taken balls of steel to drop him. If Poch had dropped Kane and we lost 2-0, he'd have been absolutely destroyed by fans and the media and I'd imagine Harry would have been pushing for a move a lot sooner than he did.

All you can ask of a manager is to make logical decisions based on the information he has to hand at the time. I think Poch did that - whether or not you agree is a different discussion.
 
DeanoAustin said:
It may have, it may not. It still would have been 0-1 after 1 a minute which was the game changer. Lucas is also not exactly the most reliable of players - he missed our best chance that night IIRC (not that it was easy). Kane also wasn't out of form, he was just returning from injury.

I would have played Lucas that night. Not sure where but I wouldn't have played him over Harry. Harry is, and was, absolutely world class. It's the biggest game in your club's history, I can 100% understand why Poch went with the team he did.
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But how do you know that penalty is given if Lucas is on the pitch? That phase of play may not of happened due to a change of shape, different positions etc.
 
Yiddo said:
But how do you know that penalty is given if Lucas is on the pitch? That phase of play may not of happened due to a change of shape, different positions etc.
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Did Kane even touch the ball before the pen? We're getting into mad territory now. It's fair enough to have an opinion that Lucas would have started but there's no guarantee we'd have done any better. That loss wasn't on Kane or Son really for me any more than it was on the rest of the team.
 
A case could be made for either harry or moura, but ultimately there is no knowing which one is best.
We could have started moura and lost more heavily, or started harry and won or vice versa.
There is no way of knowing and we as a club shouldn't look back at failures other than to learn from them, and the problem that night wasn't a selection in one position, it was that once again we lacked belief.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Did Kane even touch the ball before the pen? We're getting into mad territory now. It's fair enough to have an opinion that Lucas would have started but there's no guarantee we'd have done any better. That loss wasn't on Kane or Son really for me any more than it was on the rest of the team.
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No but the underlying point that Yiddo is making is that every change has a knock-on effect. You can call it butterfly effect, but the passage of play would have been different. Of course, no one here is saying we would've won the game... we could've lost by even more.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Did Kane even touch the ball before the pen? We're getting into mad territory now. It's fair enough to have an opinion that Lucas would have started but there's no guarantee we'd have done any better. That loss wasn't on Kane or Son really for me any more than it was on the rest of the team.
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I think that happened when a poster openly declared they were unwilling to change their mind / opinion in the face of new evidence or viewpoints, and three pages of debate ensued regardless.

Then more arguments about that night came up for the thousandth time, free speech and all that and I wouldn’t try to shout anyone down (not whilst sober anyway) but I still get that sinking / sick feeling in my stomach when I’m reminded of it...
 
spurspinter1 said:
I think that happened when a poster openly declared they were unwilling to change their mind / opinion in the face of new evidence or viewpoints, and three pages of debate ensued regardless.

Then more arguments about that night came up for the thousandth time, free speech and all that and I wouldn’t try to shout anyone down (not whilst sober anyway) but I still get that sinking / sick feeling in my stomach when I’m reminded of it...
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Haven't watched a second of it back and don't think I ever will. City and Ajax were two of my greatest experiences supporting this club but the performance in the final has even taken away from them. And I f**king hate that what's synonymous with Tottenham is "this is the club who got to the CL final in 2019 and has the best stadium in the world". Big swinging mickey. I don't think Woolwich had those associations when they got to the final and built the Death Star. It screams small time club.

I'd love Conte to replace those two with an association that actually means something.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Did Kane even touch the ball before the pen? We're getting into mad territory now. It's fair enough to have an opinion that Lucas would have started but there's no guarantee we'd have done any better. That loss wasn't on Kane or Son really for me any more than it was on the rest of the team.
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The argument is everyone and their dog wanted Lucas to start but he didn’t as Kane and Son are undroppable and thats what the problem is.
 
Yiddo said:
The argument is everyone and their dog wanted Lucas to start but he didn’t as Kane and Son are undroppable and thats what the problem is.
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Not everyone and their dog. That's projecting. And certainly no one advocated him playing in place of Son. Had he played in place of Kane, there would have been murder if we'd lost.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Not everyone and their dog. That's projecting. And certainly no one advocated him playing in place of Son. Had he played in place of Kane, there would have been murder if we'd lost.
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Didn’t say anything about dropping Son in that game, just saying Kane and Son are undroppable.
 
Yiddo said:
Didn’t say anything about dropping Son in that game, just saying Kane and Son are undroppable.
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They may not play well every single game but they are quite clearly the two best players at the club. Hence why people think its not a good idea to bench them if they have 3-4 bad games in a row. Unless we have better options on the bench but we clearly do not. It would be like benching Modric for Harry Winks.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Haven't watched a second of it back and don't think I ever will. City and Ajax were two of my greatest experiences supporting this club but the performance in the final has even taken away from them. And I f**king hate that what's synonymous with Tottenham is "this is the club who got to the CL final in 2019 and has the best stadium in the world". Big swinging mickey. I don't think Woolwich had those associations when they got to the final and built the Death Star. It screams small time club.

I'd love Conte to replace those two with an association that actually means something.
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In a purely platonic sense I think I love you. It’s great there’s a good mood within the club and yet we’re all circle jerking over a potential fourth place spot but there’s better things to aim for. Nice to know it’s not just me bothered about that kind of stuff.

“Oh we’ve got the best forward combination in PL history” - Get fudged, what does it mean? Does Conte really care about that? It’s about putting that combination to use, if we’re so good why are we struggling for a fourth position in a league?
 
spurspinter1 said:
In a purely platonic sense I think I love you. It’s great there’s a good mood within the club and yet we’re all circle jerking over a potential fourth place spot but there’s better things to aim for. Nice to know it’s not just me bothered about that kind of stuff.

“Oh we’ve got the best forward combination in PL history” - Get fudged, what does it mean? Does Conte really care about that? It’s about putting that combination to use, if we’re so good why are we struggling for a fourth position in a league?
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I think if Conte had been here from the start of the season, we would not be struggling for 4th place
 
JerusalemMan said:
I think if Conte had been here from the start of the season, we would not be struggling for 4th place
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I understand that sentiment, but let’s not forget the amount of bottling it these players have done under managers other than Nuno.

It wasn’t that many weeks ago we shat ourselves against Wolves and Southampton under Conte too.

I hope we can see the season out with proper form, but I trust very few of these clams.
 
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