• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

So, who's going to sing the "Y" word on Sunday?

I was a bit shocked by what I heard from West Ham fans on the train back to Liverpool Street after the game on Sunday. I have been to countless matches at the Lane, as well as other grounds in England, but this was the first time I felt slightly uncomfortable and unsafe in connections with going to a match. I have thought about writing the club to inform them about the antisemitic remarks/chants in particular, and threatening behaviour in general, I witnessed, but I suspect I would just be wasting my time.

It is quite a provocation, however, when I get back to the hotel after the game, and they report on BBC London how the naughty Spurs-fans kept shouting the "Y-word", whilst West Ham fans apparently behaved impeccably.

its a witch hunt as we are the "only ones" who make it obvious.....

The more of you who complain, film on your phones etc and tweet/ facebook/ youtube it the better for our clubs


This seems to becoming a bigger issue every season!

You should write to the club. They will say they are aware of it and are working with the authorities... but it is a witchhunt and it isn't going away. We as a club are being pushed from pillar to post while those who have caused this mock us as fans.
 
You should write to the club. They will say they are aware of it and are working with the authorities... but it is a witchhunt and it isn't going away. We as a club are being pushed from pillar to post while those who have caused this mock us as fans.
Does anyone know of a suitable mailaddress for this? I have had a look at the official website, but haven't found one.
 
Will it ever change?

I've only seen West Ham twice at the Lane, '94 and '05. Both occasions have been quite nasty. In '94 I had my six year old daughter with me. It was Easter Monday and the Club were giving out Easter Eggs to the kids. Everything was fine, although we got chinned 4-1. But the station platform and train on the way back was horrendous. The West Ham fans were looking to fight every-one in sight, having a child with me was scary, had to try my best to stay out of the way.

2005 was an early kick off, with all the bars shut. Nasty atmosphere, scuffles and punches being thrown by both sides outside the ground at the Park Lane/High Road/shop corner. The Police were quite indiscriminate in their use of batons as well.

I've been to the Boleyn Ground a couple of times as a "neutral", can't imagine what it's it like as an away Spurs fan. How do you ever get to and from that place in one piece? I'd genuinely like to know.
 
I was a bit shocked by what I heard from West Ham fans on the train back to Liverpool Street after the game on Sunday. I have been to countless matches at the Lane, as well as other grounds in England, but this was the first time I felt slightly uncomfortable and unsafe in connections with going to a match. I have thought about writing the club to inform them about the antisemitic remarks/chants in particular, and threatening behaviour in general, I witnessed, but I suspect I would just be wasting my time.

It is quite a provocation, however, when I get back to the hotel after the game, and they report on BBC London how the naughty Spurs-fans kept shouting the "Y-word", whilst West Ham fans apparently behaved impeccably.

Exactly this, there was loads of them openly bragging on twitter about what chants they were singing before during and after sunday, the police did nothing
 
Will it ever change?

I've only seen West Ham twice at the Lane, '94 and '05. Both occasions have been quite nasty. In '94 I had my six year old daughter with me. It was Easter Monday and the Club were giving out Easter Eggs to the kids. Everything was fine, although we got chinned 4-1. But the station platform and train on the way back was horrendous. The West Ham fans were looking to fight every-one in sight, having a child with me was scary, had to try my best to stay out of the way.

2005 was an early kick off, with all the bars shut. Nasty atmosphere, scuffles and punches being thrown by both sides outside the ground at the Park Lane/High Road/shop corner. The Police were quite indiscriminate in their use of batons as well.

I've been to the Boleyn Ground a couple of times as a "neutral", can't imagine what it's it like as an away Spurs fan. How do you ever get to and from that place in one piece? I'd genuinely like to know.

Its not fun !!!!

Especially as the away end is tucked down a narrow alley and road off the main street, there is basically one tube in and out so your all queueing up together, its an intimidating place, great atmosphere when we play them though...

I can honestly say the lasagne day there was my worst day as a Spurs fan at a game, horrendous abuse and obviously the screwing we took on the pitch
 
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs...mpaign-borderline-anti-semitic-135904439.html

David Baddiel’s Y-word campaign ‘borderline anti-Semitic’ says Jewish Tottenham fan in open letter
By Eurosport | World of Sport – 21 hours ago


An ultra-orthodox Jew having “Yiddo” chanted at them does not, at first glance, seem like a strong argument from for the continued use of the term at White Hart Lane.
Especially not when that case is delivered by a Spurs fan to David Baddiel, the man who has done his utmost to remove the perceived offensive term from the football landscape.
But when the argument is put forth in a logical and eloquent letter from another Jewish fan, and one who is a season ticket holder at the Lane, then people have to sit up and take notice.
Coming after a weekend in which a Spurs fan (who feasibly may have been Jewish) was arrested for using the term, the letter and its accompanying argument are a much-needed fillip to the counter-campaign being run by some Spurs fans, who are trying to stop Baddiel’s efforts.
While the letter sympathises with the essence of Baddiel’s feelings, it states that "this isn’t a Tottenham problem", but a Chelsea, Leeds United and West Ham one. The letter actually goes as far as saying that Baddiel’s campaign is “borderline anti-Semitic”, suggesting that it is tantamount to "hiding away" the victims and thereby comparing it to the enforced segregation of the Jewish community in Germany before the Second World War.
The author of the letter, Nick Cowan, posits that the word actually bring communities - Jewish and non-Jewish - together in a corner of north London and asks Baddiel not to, ahem, "f**k that up".
What do you think? Read the full letter below and post a comment in the comments section.

fan-letter-spurs.jpg
 
Well said Nick Cowan. It's funny that David Baddiel doesn't talk about how some of his fellow Chelsea fans or other fans are guilty of making anti-Semitic chants directed at us (i.e. the hissing noises).
 
Last edited:
I heard the hissing and hideous abuse at Elland Rd. back in the early 2000's. Haven't seent Chelsea or West Ham play us live, but can well imagine. We have to stand up to this push back. The FA are must be tacitly behind this as they just want the issue swept under a rug as tidily as possible so they can get on counting their money.

Maybe fans should pick up on and start singing something a little special from the catalogue of rogue country and western artists Kinky Friedman and The Texas Jewboys.

"They don't make Jews
Like Jesus any more
They don't turn the other cheek
The way they done before
You could hear that redneck howling
As he hit the hardwood floor,
OHhhhhhhhhhh
They don't make Jews
Like Jesus anymore"

Yee-haw. And yes, Kinky's a proper Jew and as another of his songs says, "Proud To Be An A$$hole From El Paso". Could be about Jack Wheelchair's folks.
 
Baddiel is a macaron! his arguement is hypocritical and he ignores all points made to him that do not agree with his.

just look at his twitter time line... retweets all that agree, blocked me for pursing a debate on the matter with him, I wasnt even abusive, just calling him up on some of his points...





The above article about Cowen is brilliant, but it did say before his letter that the spurs fans was arrested for chanting yid??? is this true?
 
^ from what ive heard the guy shouted yid army (or something similar) in a policemans face - was probsbly more for the manner in which he said it rather than what was said, Imv at least.

As i said earlier in the thread the police in our section said they were there for over crowding not because of yid chanting, of which there was a lot because people thought that was why they were there (and wanted to make a point)
 
What p*sses me off about this is that the club do not help at all, they have recording gear set up all around the stadium whereby they are recording the away fans every move. I do not understand why these video's and sounds are not being used to educate the media in what these racist fans are doing. Why is there an effort by the meida, the police and our own club to sweep **** under the carpet. I don't understand the silence. Why let them continue and put up with it.

I'd suggest that if the p*rno brothers really wanted shot of this they could with one phone call to Daniel Levy to match up the faces to there membership forms. How long would it take.. a day to put names to faces. Thing is they daren't because of the simple fact, its the hardcore support of there scummy club they will be damaging, there own pockets will stop being lined by this scum. That is what it boils down to.
 
Below is my two cents worth in response to the email the club sent out this morning asking for consultation on the use of the Y word:

I certainly agree the use of the word "yid" possibly makes Spurs fans a target when they travel abroad as witnessed in Lyon earlier this year. It happened in Rome too but then again, Roma and Lazio fans attack anybody with a pulse. Man United and Woolwich have had trouble in that city in the past.

I am not Jewish, but I can understand why some Jewish people find the word offensive. If a Jewish person doesn't like the word, who am I as a non Jewish person to tell them otherwise?

However, I also fully understand the frustrations of our own fans, some of whom feel like they are being picked on whilst the worst perpetrators get away with it. I heard a Spurs fan was arrested at the last home game, can I ask how many West Ham fans were arrested for singing songs about Hitler? Not one I'm betting. It's ludicrous that West Ham and Chelsea fans get away with it for the most part. I really feel the club needs to convey this feeling of persecution to the Police and the FA and tell them to start a campaign to clamp down on ALL uses of the Jewish slur, not just by Spurs fans. David Baddiel is one of the biggest hypocrites in the English media. He continues to direct scorn at us, but this doesn't stop him sitting amongst the worst offenders at Stamford Bridge on a fortnightly basis. It's plain to see that football is more important to him than his religion. He's obviously frightened that he will get some abuse directed at him from Chelsea fans if he speaks out against them.

I would also like to address the notion that by Spurs dropping the Y word from their song collection, it will somehow eradicate other fans use of the word. This is a complete fallacy in my view. If the government were to legalise drugs in this country, would this stop the criminals who sell them from breaking the law? Would they all just go out and get legitimate jobs overnight?

I genuinely believe Spurs fans would stop using the word if the other clubs stopped too. Some fans might still feel an attachment to the term, but it would eventually die out.

Let us not forget how this whole scenario came about in the first place. We adopted the term to lessen its impact, because other supporters felt the need to hurl abuse based on Religious beliefs.
 
You've got to be so ****ed up in the head to sing a song about the holocaust that I just can't agree with the 'spurs fans stop using yid opposing fans stop anti-semitism' argument.
 
this has popped up on my Facebook news feed, there doesn't appear to be a source for it though

MET POLICE: SING WHAT YOU WANT! - LT

Metropolitan Police have reassured Tottenham they will NOT face prosecution over their own supporters use of the word 'Yid' in matchday chants.

The police have clarified their stance over whether the club's supporters could be investigated for making racial slurs given the anti-Semitic nature of the word 'Yid'.

Club supporters often sing songs featuring the expression, and on Thursday the club released a statement defending their fans right to use the expression.

And the Met have advised Tottenham chants such as 'Yid Army' will not lead to prosecution on the basis that it is used with no 'deliberate intention to cause offence'.

Spurs' conversations with police come after the Society of Black Lawyers threatened to report the club to the police if they were not seen to be doing more to ensure the term is no longer used.

SPURS STATEMENT

'The club does not tolerate any form of racist or abusive chanting.

'Our guiding principle in respect of the "Y-word" is based on the point of law itself - the distinguishing factor is the intent with which it is used ie if it is used with the deliberate intention to cause offence.

'This has been the basis of prosecutions of fans of other teams to date. Our fans adopted the chant as a defence mechanism in order to own the term and thereby deflect anti-Semitic abuse. They do not use the term to others to cause any offence, they use it a chant amongst themselves.

'The club believes that real anti-semitic abuse such as hissing to simulate the noise of gas chambers is the real evil and the real offence. We believe this is the area that requires a determined and concerted effort from all parties and where we seek greater support to eradicate.'

Chairman Peter Herbert originally said that if chants including the word continue, he would ask police to bring a prosecution for racism.

The club responded with a strong defence of their supporters’ use of the word but Herbert has blasted back, accusing the supporters of casual racism.

‘The argument sounds like it is 40 years old,’ he said. ‘I’m deeply saddened that a football club that represents such a diverse area has taken such a view. I don’t want to have to take my children to a football match and expect to hear anti-Semitic chants.

‘Tottenham Hotspur Football Club obviously just don’t get it. It’s almost like saying if a woman refers to another woman in a derogatory fashion then it is OK.’

Herbert added: ‘What we are trying to do is change a culture. What we are saying to Tottenham is, “Maybe this was OK 50 years ago - but it isn’t now”.

‘Even if it comes from Tottenham supporters, it remains casual racism. We understand it is a difficult, and for some an uncomfortable, stance to take, but we feel it is the right stance.’

Tottenham then issued an impassioned defence of their fans’ right to use the term ‘Yid’ in their matchday chants.

Spurs are steeped in Jewish tradition and large sections of their support refer to themselves as ‘Yids’ in matchday songs.

In a statement: ‘The club does not tolerate any form of racist or abusive chanting.

'Our guiding principle in respect of the “Y-word” is based on the point of law itself — the distinguishing factor is the intent with which it is used, i.e. if it is used with the deliberate intention to cause offence.

SOCIETY OF BLACK LAWYERS' PLAN

A minimum six to nine-month ban for racial abuse, rising to a five-year ban for a third offence

Any fines going directly to Kick It Out to fund grassroots anti-racism initiatives

The creation of representative associations for black players, managers and coaches

Guidance for referees to send off players using racist abuse and the power to call off games where the crowd is using such abuse

A 20 per cent quota at all levels of the FA, PFA, clubs as well as football agents and referees

Racial abuse to be a matter of gross misconduct incorporated into players’ contracts

Clubs to invest in the personal education of all players, including university or college education

Recording referees and assistants during matches to pick up any possible abuse by players.

A system for reporting racial incidents to be set up with details of these incidents, both on and off the pitch, published each year

'This has been the basis of prosecutions of fans of other teams to date. Our fans adopted the chant as a defence mechanism in order to own the term and thereby deflect anti-Semitic abuse. They do not use the term to others to cause any offence, they use it as a chant among themselves.

‘The club believes that real anti-Semitic abuse such as hissing to simulate the noise of gas chambers is the real evil and the real offence.

‘We believe this is the area that requires a determined effort from all parties and where we seek greater support to eradicate.’

Former Spurs stars Gary Lineker and Ledley King have previously condemned the mimicking of the gas chambers by away supporters.

Tottenham have traditionally been well supported by members of the Jewish community. Many fans do not consider references to their faith as offensive. Others,such as comedian David Baddiel, however, do.

Last year Baddiel launched a campaign, supported by Lineker, to stamp out use of the word 'yid' in football chants which mock Jewish and Tottenham supporters.

The Society of Black Lawyers is involved in talks to create a Black Players’ Association with some professionals, claiming the football authorities are not doing enough to represent them or to tackle racism in the sport.

The PFA recently introduced its own six-point action plan but the society says this will prove 'ineffective'.

SUPPORTER COMMENT: SORRY BUT THE Y-WORD BELONGS TO US

As a youngster growing up supporting Spurs, it took me some time to realise the word 'yid' was an offensive racial slur. I'd never heard it used in a derogatory sense at White Hart Lane, only ever as a collective term - yid army - and as a positive identifier.

If a player was good, he was a yiddo.

But its significance soon became apparent. Though far from the abhorrent gas chamber hissing of some away fans, it's still sensitive. Context is important, though, and its reclamation as a positive term at the ground should not be ignored.

The Society of Black lawyers says use of the word yid, including the tone adopted by Spurs fans, amounts to casual racism. Perhaps they have a point. Perhaps simply substituting the word would be the answer. But Spurs fans are unlikely to take kindly at being told what to do by an external body, especially as it is largely considered a positive, rather than offensive, chant.

David Baddiel tried to stamp out its use by Tottenham supporters but, despite his own Jewish faith, the views of a Chelsea fan were never likely to be accepted by the Spurs majority.

If the word yid really is to be kicked out of White Hart Lane, it would need concerns to be raised from within the Spurs-supporting community, rather than outside pressures.

Andrew Magee, life-long Spurs supporter
 
who else is going to the quater final vs west ham?

I can see it all getting a bit nasty.

I am in block 39 so will hear them loud and clear and video anything that I can complain to the club with....
 
Wasn't sure what thread to post this in but...


Using the word ‘Yid’ at White Hart Lane will no longer be an arrestable offence, the The Metropolitan Police has announced.
The Tottenham Hotspur Supporters Trust (THST) asked the police for their position on the controversial term in a police and safety forum meeting last Monday.
They were told anti-semitic holocaust songs directed at Spurs fans, which are an offence, are different from chants sung by Spurs fans including the Y-word, which are not.
Constable Steve Payne, Football Intelligence Officer for the Met, said fans would still be arrested for using the Y-word if a complaint was made against them.
The FA issued guidelines for supporters’ behaviour and said the use of the word was “derogatory and offensive” and could amount to a criminal offence, even if it was being sung by supporters of Tottenham, who traditionally drew a large following from the Jewish community.

The FA’s intervention last September prompted a fierce response from Spurs supporters, who insisted they should be the ones to decide whether it is time to end the chants.
“If Spurs fans genuinely are going to stop using this word then it should be our decision,” chairman Darren Alexander said at the time.
“We sincerely believe that no Spurs fan ever uses the Y-word or shouts ‘Yid Army’ in an effort to offend anyone.”
Spurs supporters have always maintained that the word ‘Yid’ in has never been used a malicious way, despite its offensive connotations. The word is used affectionately by supporters of Tottenham, who proudly chant “Yid Army” in response to the perception they have a large Jewish following. But it is used as a term of anti-semitic abuse by rival fans.
A THST statement, issued in response to the FA’s warning, read: “THST is categorically against ejections and banning orders for use of the term by Tottenham supporters in a match environment.
“Our view has always been that should Spurs’ fans’ use of the Yid identity come to an end, this should be as a result of the feeling among the Spurs community that it was time to move on.
"This issue has always been of the utmost importance to us and while we recognise that Spurs fans use of the Y-word and associated identity may have caused some upset to members of the Jewish community, we sincerely believe no Spurs fan uses the term in a malicious way.”
It said: “We do not in any way condone racist language being used by football fans and we are aware of the recent media reporting of racist abuse being used towards opposition fans during matches.
“However this was never one of those cases. The word ‘Yid’ simply means ‘Jew’. It was and is still used as a term of endearment by many Jewish people.
"Its use in a derogatory way was started by racists in Nazi Germany. This deplorable action should not have the power to forever change its meaning into an abusive term.
“The word ‘Yid’ was adopted over 30 years ago by Spurs fans to combat racist abuse aimed towards them at football by opposing fans.
“It developed into a strong identity status that brought Jewish and non-Jewish Spurs fans together in an incredible show of unity that is admired worldwide. That is what fighting racism within football should be about.”
On March 7 the Crown Prosecution Service discontinued cases made against three Totttenham fans arrested for using the Y-word. Eight arrests were made last season for racially aggravated offences at White Hart Lane.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...White-Hart-Lane-says-Metropolitan-Police.html


Didn't last very long. Don't understand how it's not an arrestable offense though but we can still be arrested if someone complains about it. Does that mean I can complain about Arsenal fans who chant their clubs name, which offends me, and expect them to be arrested?
 
Wasn't sure what thread to post this in but...




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...White-Hart-Lane-says-Metropolitan-Police.html


Didn't last very long. Don't understand how it's not an arrestable offense though but we can still be arrested if someone complains about it. Does that mean I can complain about Arsenal fans who chant their clubs name, which offends me, and expect them to be arrested?

That would depend on whether their name was a widely recognised term of racial abuse. As ours is, context is everything.
 
Back