So, what happened today?

[spurspinter1]

I’m in the camp of legalise and control it
But… I know from my wife’s work the issues it leads to around paranoia and psychosis and other mental health problems which aren’t widely discussed
She sees a lot of horrendous cases in her team and the lead factor initially, but regularly is the use of “weed”
It’s quite grim and some of these people are in horrible states and need a lot of help

I think there'd be less paranoia once it's legal. At the minute those who want to enjoy it responsibly are essentially forced to have to engage with dealers who may have a code of sorts but don't necessarily abide by any rules and then you've also got anxiety of the police to deal with. Tom Segura (US comic) has a bit about the insane situations you'd end up in trying to score weed and how insane it was before they went legally recreational over there, it was funny but also a key point. If you're a parent, would you rather your son / daughter be purchasing quality product from a shop / prescription from a GP or being taken in the back of a literal gang member's car for an untraceable cash exchange which could go badly wrong at any point. Obviously controls on terms of not selling to minors is important, but what's happening as we speak is fudgery.

Nothing against your wife but it's often a pretty lazy assertion that weed is the problem, for some life itself is the problem and the plant offers a remedy to that but if it's misused it'll cause problems, that's true for literally anything. Replacing weed with anti depressants is the go to for mental healthcare and its a horrendous approach imo. For 99.99% it's not some kind of bath salt substance that turns lovely folk in to raving lunatics frothing at the mouth. Nor is it alcohol which mainly makes people a combination of stupid / aggressive at the slightest sign of inconvenience. What is available via illegal channels is pretty much the worst version of the plant, it's like if they went back to prohibition days and the only booze you could get was special brew, society would collapse within weeks. Having a variety of quality strains that are actually suited to different occasions would be much better than just stuff that's grown to be as strong as possible.

Not to get too in to it but a lot of positive studies on psilocybin mushrooms in terms of mental health as well, but obviously used in a responsible way and safely procured. I know plenty who microdose to good effect but again, in the UK you're at risk because of the archaic approach based on done unwinnable war on drugs.

 

[johnola]

I’m wholly against smoking it anywhere public as the smell rivals dogbrick.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think there'd be less paranoia once it's legal. At the minute those who want to enjoy it responsibly are essentially forced to have to engage with dealers who may have a code of sorts but don't necessarily abide by any rules and then you've also got anxiety of the police to deal with. Tom Segura (US comic) has a bit about the insane situations you'd end up in trying to score weed and how insane it was before they went legally recreational over there, it was funny but also a key point. If you're a parent, would you rather your son / daughter be purchasing quality product from a shop / prescription from a GP or being taken in the back of a literal gang member's car for an untraceable cash exchange which could go badly wrong at any point. Obviously controls on terms of not selling to minors is important, but what's happening as we speak is fudgery.

Nothing against your wife but it's often a pretty lazy assertion that weed is the problem, for some life itself is the problem and the plant offers a remedy to that but if it's misused it'll cause problems, that's true for literally anything. Replacing weed with anti depressants is the go to for mental healthcare and its a horrendous approach imo. For 99.99% it's not some kind of bath salt substance that turns lovely folk in to raving lunatics frothing at the mouth. Nor is it alcohol which mainly makes people a combination of stupid / aggressive at the slightest sign of inconvenience. What is available via illegal channels is pretty much the worst version of the plant, it's like if they went back to prohibition days and the only booze you could get was special brew, society would collapse within weeks. Having a variety of quality strains that are actually suited to different occasions would be much better than just stuff that's grown to be as strong as possible.

Not to get too in to it but a lot of positive studies on psilocybin mushrooms in terms of mental health as well, but obviously used in a responsible way and safely procured. I know plenty who microdose to good effect but again, in the UK you're at risk because of the archaic approach based on done unwinnable war on drugs.

It’s medically leading/creating paranoia. It’s common in people who have a need for their services to talk about how they started with smoking
She runs the early intervention mental health team for the county so her comments about it come from 18 years experience, 2 degrees and many physiologists and drs

But your comments about people using it as an antidepressant also is every true from what she has said. It’s a readily available fix

I’ve never smoked so I can’t comment form any experience as to its use. But I do believe control through legalisation has to be better than what happens today

 

[markysimmo]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1761509816936088003

 

[spurspinter1]

It’s medically leading/creating paranoia. It’s common in people who have a need for their services to talk about how they started with smoking
She runs the early intervention mental health team for the county so her comments about it come from 18 years experience, 2 degrees and many physiologists and drs

But your comments about people using it as an antidepressant also is every true from what she has said. It’s a readily available fix

I’ve never smoked so I can’t comment form any experience as to its use. But I do believe control through legalisation has to be better than what happens today

Life creates paranoia. I'm not saying that weed doesn't ever contribute to psychosis, but it's rare and usually the biggest problems are those that are already in people's lives, if it wasn't weed being used as a crutch it'd be something else. There's less negative side effects to the plant than there for to what they try to swap it with that's for sure. The funniest side effects of anti depressants being depression itself.

No disrespect to individuals within the mental health industry but the longer you've been in it the worse it gets if you've been entrenched in our way of dealing with issues. "The drugs that you've been enjoying are the problem and the ones we prescribe will make everything better". The service has been on its knees for however long and all they can really do is tell you the ways that they can't help up until it gets bad enough remove you from society either temporarily or indefinitely. In terms of the stresses of life and everything being squeezed more and more I can only predict it getting worse unless there's a big shift in approach.

I do believe that for some people they may be predisposed to certain strains of weed causing issues, and certain personalities are prone to an unhealthy relationship with the substance. But the whole "weed makes people crazy and is bad" is very lazy, and especially hypocritical from those who rely on other drugs such as alcohol / caffeine/ nicotine to get by.

The key point being though we do indeed agree on control via legalizing it! It'll be interesting to see how it goes in Germany but apparently the right wing opposition has already stated they'll reverse it as soon as their in power, proudly the enemy of progress, what an odd stance.

 

[johnola]

Life creates paranoia. I'm not saying that weed doesn't ever contribute to psychosis, but it's rare and usually the biggest problems are those that are already in people's lives, if it wasn't weed being used as a crutch it'd be something else. There's less negative side effects to the plant than there for to what they try to swap it with that's for sure. The funniest side effects of anti depressants being depression itself.

No disrespect to individuals within the mental health industry but the longer you've been in it the worse it gets if you've been entrenched in our way of dealing with issues. "The drugs that you've been enjoying are the problem and the ones we prescribe will make everything better". The service has been on its knees for however long and all they can really do is tell you the ways that they can't help up until it gets bad enough remove you from society either temporarily or indefinitely. In terms of the stresses of life and everything being squeezed more and more I can only predict it getting worse unless there's a big shift in approach.

I do believe that for some people they may be predisposed to certain strains of weed causing issues, and certain personalities are prone to an unhealthy relationship with the substance. But the whole "weed makes people crazy and is bad" is very lazy, and especially hypocritical from those who rely on other drugs such as alcohol / caffeine/ nicotine to get by.

The key point being though we do indeed agree on control via legalizing it! It'll be interesting to see how it goes in Germany but apparently the right wing opposition has already stated they'll reverse it as soon as their in power, proudly the enemy of progress, what an odd stance.

I don’t see the mechanism for depressed people to obtain and then start smoking weed instead of visiting the gp?

No. These people are already smoking it. They spend good money dealing with petty criminals and it is those sort of decisions that lead to life failures and depression.

 

[scaramanga]

That's a rather odd feeling to actually agree with you on something, but then you've corrected the balance by your following post in the thread haha.

High earning doesn't necessarily equate to hard earning, it's actually the opposite in many cases, it's only anecdotal I can claim that but it very much seems to be the case. It's only a guess but I don't think you'd last a night in a "lowly" nurse's shoes for a shift.

But yes on the weed front. People are going to smoke it whether it's legal or not so why not make it safe and profitable. Inspire the next generation of gardeners without the bizarre threat of getting locked up for being enterprising and skilled at horticulture. As you say, the more and more go this way the sillier we'll look. It's absolute speculation but I wonder if it looks like the conservatives have almost 0 chance of winning they might throw the idea in to get the stoner vote on board. Apparently Teresa May's husband has one of the largest factories for production/ growth of the CBD stuff but are ready to start with the proper stuff as and when is legally allowed. I would fuc king love it if we could get THC vapes sorted out.

Spoke to someone about it who said "Well what about people who get addicted?", with that line of thought should be also criminalize gambling, alcohol, tobacco, junk food, phones / devices of any kind, social media, masturbation etc etc

I certainly couldn't do the job of a nurse, the giving a fudge about other people but would be an impediment.

But I've spent large chunks of my late teens and early 20s doing hours that nurses and junior doctors would shy away from.

I don't think there's been anywhere near enough work done to look a the addiction/mental health side of things. I've spent most of my life around people who smoke a lot and not a single one has been addicted. A few certainly have what I'd call a habit, but none addicted like I've seen with Alcohol, tobacco and other drugs. The whole paranoia/mental health thing just feels off. It seems to me that it's more likely that the cause and effect have been confused. It wouldn't surprise me if it turns out that the increased numbers are because those people are more likely to lean towards ways to make themselves feel better or to just get out of it for a while.

 

[spurspinter1]

I don’t see the mechanism for depressed people to obtain and then start smoking weed instead of visiting the gp?

No. These people are already smoking it. They spend good money dealing with petty criminals and it is those sort of decisions that lead to life failures and depression.

I think most people would rather deal with a reputable shop rather than a petty criminal for reasons I've already stated, but aren't allowed to because of ridiculous laws.

Sorry I don't know what you mean with the mechanism point so I don't want to assume! It could very well be that you go to the GP for weed, many Drs are already recommending people down the CBD route because it works. You might have a preconceived bad notion of some drugs and fair enough but depression / life failures due to wanting a bag of weed sounds a bit of a stretch though however you look at it.

 

[Trixster]

I certainly couldn't do the job of a nurse, the giving a fudge about other people but would be an impediment.

Especially if they were Palestinian.

 

[scaramanga]

Especially if they were Palestinian.

I've got nothing against Palestinians who have never supported Hams and are atheists.

 

[johnola]

I think most people would rather deal with a reputable shop rather than a petty criminal for reasons I've already stated, but aren't allowed to because of ridiculous laws.

Sorry I don't know what you mean with the mechanism point so I don't want to assume! It could very well be that you go to the GP for weed, many Drs are already recommending people down the CBD route because it works. You might have a preconceived bad notion of some drugs and fair enough but depression / life failures due to wanting a bag of weed sounds a bit of a stretch though however you look at it.

I think most people would rather deal with a reputable shop rather than a petty criminal for reasons I've already stated, but aren't allowed to because of ridiculous laws.

Sorry I don't know what you mean with the mechanism point so I don't want to assume! It could very well be that you go to the GP for weed, many Drs are already recommending people down the CBD route because it works. You might have a preconceived bad notion of some drugs and fair enough but depression / life failures due to wanting a bag of weed sounds a bit of a stretch though however you look at it.

Your post are so long and rambling it is hard to get an angle on what you are trying to communicate.

I am saying non drug users do not start taking cannabis because of depression. They do not have the contacts to obtain it illegally and would simply head to or be pointed to the gps and other welfare services.

As for those already using drugs that is a completely different matter.

GPs in England at least can only prescribe cannabis in tightly controlled diagnoses and that does not include depression.

 

[SpurMeUp]

It’s medically leading/creating paranoia. It’s common in people who have a need for their services to talk about how they started with smoking
She runs the early intervention mental health team for the county so her comments about it come from 18 years experience, 2 degrees and many physiologists and drs

But your comments about people using it as an antidepressant also is every true from what she has said. It’s a readily available fix

I’ve never smoked so I can’t comment form any experience as to its use. But I do believe control through legalisation has to be better than what happens today

If we could legalese the less potent, higher in CBD content ‘natural’ weed and hash, and leave the sweet smelling hybrid (probably described as smelling like dog poo ), it would help reduce psychosis from weed. The hybrid strains that started with Skunk - remember that! - are high in TFC. It gets you high but doesn’t have the more sanguine CBD to match, as original weed used to.

Some of these bred for strength strains of weed are incredibly powerful psychoactive drugs. More akin to mushrooms or lsd. Probably need to distinguish between them and older more ‘mellow’ weed.

However, the answer is to legalise and control…all drugs. Whether better labeling, education, support…there isn’t a nation that has gone back after legalisation. Portugal and Switzerland control their addicts and help them now. No one in these countries wants to go back to an underground crime-rich drugs scene, which says it all.

 

[spurspinter1]

Your post are so long and rambling it is hard to get an angle on what you are trying to communicate.

I am saying non drug users do not start taking cannabis because of depression. They do not have the contacts to obtain it illegally and would simply head to or be pointed to the gps and other welfare services.

As for those already using drugs that is a completely different matter.

GPs in England at least can only prescribe cannabis in tightly controlled diagnoses and that does not include depression.

Okay? I'm not really sure how you have come to this sweeping generalisation nor what it is in counter to. If you're taking any substance that can alter your state of mind there must be a reason for it otherwise you wouldn't be taking it. Everyone will have their own reason, I don't claim to know why, not sure what qualifies you to make the assumption, colour me intrigued.

My points have been quite clear throughout, pro legalisation and control to benefit the consumer and to reduce income to gangs / earn tax to improve society. It's gone on to my thoughts on our approach to mental healthcare but I hope you can cope with idea of a conversation moving on to other related subjects that come up naturally in the discussion. If you don't understand certain points I'm happy to attempt to explain. It's funny to level the long and rambling comment at me quoting a short post asking for clarification because what you had written that was unclear, and asking you to expand on it now seems even more abstract because it's unrelated to what I have said at any point.

Crack on with your cliched life failures / depression being because of smoking weed, but you've hit the tickle my balls with a feather in your last sentence possibly inadvertently. The plant is prescribed to people suffering all sorts of ailments, moreso over in the US ie medical cards and it's good that we are moving in that direction. Don't think you see many doctors prescribing drinking / gambling, which are legal pastimes that I'm guessing you're okay with being legal?

Great post @SpurMeUp I think it's just giving the consumer the choice which they do not currently have. Clearly labeled THC percentages and info on the strain is so much better than the "you get what you're given and if you're not happy fudge off" approach. I remember a trip to Seattle where you'd walk in to a dispensary and it was a wonderland, wall to wall products and actually legit info to go along with it. Great staff like in the way that people are Waterstones tend to be really enthusiastic and knowledgeable about books. It made returning to the UK very sad, and for my reasons stated I just don't fudge with it here anymore due to issues with dealers etc

 

[thfcsteff]

I certainly couldn't do the job of a nurse, the giving a fudge about other people but would be an impediment.

But I've spent large chunks of my late teens and early 20s doing hours that nurses and junior doctors would shy away from.

I don't think there's been anywhere near enough work done to look a the addiction/mental health side of things. I've spent most of my life around people who smoke a lot and not a single one has been addicted. A few certainly have what I'd call a habit, but none addicted like I've seen with Alcohol, tobacco and other drugs. The whole paranoia/mental health thing just feels off. It seems to me that it's more likely that the cause and effect have been confused. It wouldn't surprise me if it turns out that the increased numbers are because those people are more likely to lean towards ways to make themselves feel better or to just get out of it for a while.

I have to admit I laughed at this...Carr's Water Biscuit humour there!

 

[SpurMeUp]

I shook Judas’ hand. Been long enough. I don’t hold a grudges. Bumped into Sol at a charity awards thing.

 

[johnola]

Okay? I'm not really sure how you have come to this sweeping generalisation nor what it is in counter to. If you're taking any substance that can alter your state of mind there must be a reason for it otherwise you wouldn't be taking it. Everyone will have their own reason, I don't claim to know why, not sure what qualifies you to make the assumption, colour me intrigued.

My points have been quite clear throughout, pro legalisation and control to benefit the consumer and to reduce income to gangs / earn tax to improve society. It's gone on to my thoughts on our approach to mental healthcare but I hope you can cope with idea of a conversation moving on to other related subjects that come up naturally in the discussion. If you don't understand certain points I'm happy to attempt to explain. It's funny to level the long and rambling comment at me quoting a short post asking for clarification because what you had written that was unclear, and asking you to expand on it now seems even more abstract because it's unrelated to what I have said at any point.

Crack on with your cliched life failures / depression being because of smoking weed, but you've hit the tickle my balls with a feather in your last sentence possibly inadvertently. The plant is prescribed to people suffering all sorts of ailments, moreso over in the US ie medical cards and it's good that we are moving in that direction. Don't think you see many doctors prescribing drinking / gambling, which are legal pastimes that I'm guessing you're okay with being legal?

Great post @SpurMeUp I think it's just giving the consumer the choice which they do not currently have. Clearly labeled THC percentages and info on the strain is so much better than the "you get what you're given and if you're not happy fudge off" approach. I remember a trip to Seattle where you'd walk in to a dispensary and it was a wonderland, wall to wall products and actually legit info to go along with it. Great staff like in the way that people are Waterstones tend to be really enthusiastic and knowledgeable about books. It made returning to the UK very sad, and for my reasons stated I just don't fudge with it here anymore due to issues with dealers etc

I’m not reading all this ffs.

 

[Daisuk]

I've been unemployed and down in the mental gutter since my divorce back in September. Got a new job yesterday, and starting tomorrow! It's nothing huge, but I'm looking to get back to some normalcy, so hoping a new job will help me a bit in that department. Fingers crossed!

 

[Baleforce]

I've been unemployed and down in the mental gutter since my divorce back in September. Got a new job yesterday, and starting tomorrow! It's nothing huge, but I'm looking to get back to some normalcy, so hoping a new job will help me a bit in that department. Fingers crossed!

Good luck mate, you should be be proud of yourself, would have taken a lot of mental resilience to get through all that.

 

[parklane1]

I've been unemployed and down in the mental gutter since my divorce back in September. Got a new job yesterday, and starting tomorrow! It's nothing huge, but I'm looking to get back to some normalcy, so hoping a new job will help me a bit in that department. Fingers crossed!

Good luck mate keep trucking. I know a lot will laugh at this but i have lived to the mantra that sometimes when you are at the bottom of the ladder you can only go one way UP.

 

[Daisuk]

Good luck mate keep trucking. I know a lot will laugh at this but i have lived to the mantra that sometimes when you are at the bottom of the ladder you can only go one way UP.

Thanks, mate. And thanks @Baleforce! Much appreciated. Had my first day at work today. Lots of lovely people working there. Got talking a lot with one guy who was over the moon that we both loved Charles Bukowski. I appreciate ever little piece like that these days. I really hope it's a start of a sort of ascend out of the darkest mental pits. It's nice to be of use again.