Shooting in Connecticut

[Richie]

But in Israel and Switzerland, the people who have guns have had training through national service. I'd also guess that the type and number of guns is less.

When you compare similar countries, its clear that the US is very different from the vast majority. The correlation between gun ownership and gun deaths is very clear (with a few outliers). If the guns is availability of guns is not the cause, you have to conclude that Americans are unique in being more mentally unhinged than anyone else and its just coincidence they have more guns.

yes the Swiss go through military training, but they aren't professional soldiers. They go through an 18 week boot camp and get given a gun. They have no hesitation in giving out fully automatic weapons.

As I see it, the American attitude and culture towards guns is as much a problem as the sheer number of guns.

 

[Richie]

There was a twitter read out on one of the news shows, something like:

if only help for mental illness was as easy to access as purchasing a gun.

Sums it up really.

The help is there from charity organisations for those searching for it. Perhaps not all encompassing help and obviously more can be done, but there are charities out there.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

yes the Swiss go through military training, but they aren't professional soldiers. They go through an 18 week boot camp and get given a gun. They have no hesitation in giving out fully automatic weapons.

As I see it, the American attitude and culture towards guns is as much a problem as the sheer number of guns.

It is the culture people laugh when i say it is the movies and music videos but so many of them make out like killing is normal. I blame the culture over there and im not one of those that hates america i like the idea of it the freedoms and the right wing go out and improve yourself attitude. They need to get rid of the gun crap though.

 

[Superted]

The help is there from charity organisations for those searching for it. Perhaps not all encompassing help and obviously more can be done, but there are charities out there.

While charities do a fine job, you're talking about volunteers performing a function that requires doctors. It isn't "help".

 

[Richie]

While charities do a fine job, you're talking about volunteers performing a function that requires doctors. It isn't "help".

Isn't there actually a worrying statistic about the high number of people who commit these kind of acts are on psychiatric medication? It's something I've heard in conversations on the topic, not sure about the validity of such claims though

 

[Superted]

If anything, its likely when they "forget" to take their medication.

That story on the previous page is scary, moreso because it is not an uncommon situation.

My wife's a psychologist and has dealt with these things first hand. My heart goes out to that poor lady.

 

[scaramanga]

Anyone seen the Chris Rock bit on gun control? I know it's all part of a joke but quite seriously, if you can't control guns due to the 2nd amendment why not control bullets?

Let anyone who wants a gun have one (subject to reasonable checks) but charge $5,000 per bullet - that'll stop killing sprees but people who need to defend themselves would still do so.

 

[papaspur]

Isn't there actually a worrying statistic about the high number of people who commit these kind of acts are on psychiatric medication? It's something I've heard in conversations on the topic, not sure about the validity of such claims though

I don't know if this is necessarily true, but there are so many factors involved. Just because someone hasn't been diagnosed with a mental disorder does not mean that they don't have one.

Not sure how mental illness is dealt with in the UK and abroad, but I think that here - the quick fix being the preferred solution to most problems - prescribed medications satisfy parents because they might be cheaper than prolonged psychological therapy, which isn't always guaranteed to "work."

Adam Lanza used a Bushmaster semi-automatic rifle in his massacre. I think this gun may have been registered to the shooter's mother. Some of you brought the point up that making gun restrictions stricter won't suddenly end mass shootings, which I agree with because many people do not follow basic firearm safety principles.

My father is a hunter. He has several hunting rifles (most are bolt-action and have no magazine). All the weapons are kept in a safe and he's the only one that knows the combination. It's not that he wouldn't trust me, but he is responsible with his firearms, unlike many households that simply leave the guns in easily accessible areas.

While we may be able to diagnose and "cure" some mental illnesses, we won't be able to cure ignorance. The gun lobby needs to be more active in advocating responsible firearm safety instead of catering to idiots that can't see the 2nd amendment in the historical context in which it was written.

 

[spursman17]

Anyone seen the Chris Rock bit on gun control? I know it's all part of a joke but quite seriously, if you can't control guns due to the 2nd amendment why not control bullets?

Let anyone who wants a gun have one (subject to reasonable checks) but charge $5,000 per bullet - that'll stop killing sprees but people who need to defend themselves would still do so.

People will only start making their own ammunition, in fact many in the states already do this.

The only real way America can sort their gun problem is to have a blanket ban and anyone caught with a firearm are automatically sent to 5+ years in jail. This is what happened here in the UK and people were not willing to risk the jail time in order to keep their weapon.

Of course some criminals will ignore this but over time the weapons will be removed from the streets.

It will take far longer for the gun clean up in the USA but in my opinion there is no quick fix. If they ban guns tomorrow I reckon 10-20 years down the line the country will be a far safer place. A large percentage of people however simply 'love' their guns and hide behind the second amendment in order to keep them.

Truth is however the above will not happen (well not this generation anyways). Guns have now become part of the culture for many in the states. The only 'real' solution is to have stricter possession laws and to limit the 'type' of firearms allowed. Shotguns are an example (non-semi-automatic or those restricted to three shells). Stricter mental health checks and for the firearms to be stored in a secure safe (with the permit holder only having access and to be responsible for the key). Regular, random checks should also be made to the residence to ensure firearms are kept in the correct, secure manner otherwise a fine to the removal of the weapons would result.

Similar to here, we have shotguns stored in a safe and are checked every now and then by the police. Before we were able to obtain a license a medical history check had to take place and someone in a 'respectable/responsible' position in society had to confirm they know of us (no direct relation) and that they know of no reason why we shouldn't possess them.

May be strict in a sense but it is effective and prevents misuse.

 

[Richie]

Spursman, you're living in a fantasy world if you think any of that could happen in the states. The main difference is that in the UK you need to show a legitimate reason for applying for a gun which keeps numbers low, in the US you obviously don't so such a policy would be unenforceable. Even banning guns wouldn't work because there are just so many of them.

In fact, I would be very worried for the future of the country if they tried to ban guns outright. I imagine the southern states might even try to secede from the US

 

[Mumorn]

Wayne LaPierre from the National Rifle Association is advising putting guns in schools. *gulp*

 

[NickTB]

Just saw that. His words? "The only way to stop a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun"

Oh dear