Saido Berahino

[Finney Is Back]

That's why I said 85%. Berahino could start at CF the other 15% (early round cup games). Just look how often Wimmer or Vorm have featured as a benchmark - Poch doesn't rotate his core.

I think the question here is whether Poch doesn't rotate his core because he doesn't want to or whether he doesn't do so because he doesn't feel he has good enough replacement options?

You also make a very dangerous assumption. The assumption that Kane will not pick up an injury.

If THFC end up playing a 50 game season then I would imagine that an alternative centre forward would make a minimum of 10 to 15 starting appearances. Not only that though but the alternative number 9 could also be used to replace Kane for the last 20 odd minutes of games and even to allow Kane to drop into the number 10 role to give the opposition something different to think about in games.

 

[Armchair Expert]

I would say Kane and Son/Dembele/Alli is also a real handful when chasing a game for the last 15 minutes. We haven't had a shortage of good attacking players to bring on. Chadli and Son are good players and would be automatic starters at most mid table PL teams. They've been lacking match fitness though and not been able to come in and make a huge impact. I think the same would be true for Walters and many others.

Kane might get injured. Right now Son would be the obvious player to take his place. Is Berahino better than Son for that? Perhaps... Is Walters better than Son for that? Not for me.

I'm not saying we shouldn't sign another striker. I'm saying we shouldn't sign "anyone". And I would rather see someone with the potential to actually one day become a real force for us rather than a short term solution like Walters or Long.



Definitely. And if Berahino is the one Poch wants I say go for it. But the cost matters, and I imagine it matters to Poch too.

I disagree. Having seen a fair bit of him over the past few years (I support HSV in Germany and lived in Hannover & Munich) I'd say Son is defintely not equipped to lead the line for any length of time. I'd definitely rather have Walters leading the line than Son. Not to say I don't rate Son - but why risk having to play someone out of position when we can simply sign someone? In this instance (IMO) a short term quick fix is exactly what we need. We have a young core that will evelop and grow, we just need to occcasionally add a quick fix to compliment or supplement what we have. If we always build for tomorrow today will never come. Or something like that. I'm not advocating Harry Redknapp style retirement home signings, but one or two quick fixes who provide exactly what we need - right now - wouldn't be array i think.

 

[Finney Is Back]

A £20m sideways step in terms of those 11, 7 and 10 roles is not a good thing. If Kane stays fit that's where I imagine Berahino will get the vast majority of his game time? And I assume he will expect to get game time...

If you see Berahino as a perfect Kane replacement I get why you want us to sign him. For me he doesn't seem like a perfect replacement at all.

And if Kane doesn't stay fit?.... What happens then?

 

[braineclipse]

I disagree. Having seen a fair bit of him over the past few years (I support HSV in Germany and lived in Hannover & Munich) I'd say Son is defintely not equipped to lead the line for any length of time. I'd definitely rather have Walters leading the line than Son. Not to say I don't rate Son - but why risk having to play someone out of position when we can simply sign someone? In this instance (IMO) a short term quick fix is exactly what we need. We have a young core that will evelop and grow, we just need to occcasionally add a quick fix to compliment or supplement what we have. If we always build for tomorrow today will never come. Or something like that. I'm not advocating Harry Redknapp style retirement home signings, but one or two quick fixes who provide exactly what we need - right now - wouldn't be array i don't think.

Walters doesn't lead the line for Stoke either does he?

18 months into Pochettino's reign and we get "if we always build for tomorrow today will never come"? Too soon for me. Way way too soon.

Sure a quick fix might be better right now, by what I imagine is a pretty small margin on average... But long term the benefit of developing younger players with a lot of talent can make a huge difference for us. That opportunity cost should be factored in when advocating a short term fix. Not saying a short term fix is never the solution, but it's not the solution we need up front right now. Particularly as we cannot and will not sign a short term fix that's anywhere near Kane in quality right now.

 

[StephenH]

And if Kane doesn't stay fit?.... What happens then?

If my aunty had testicles she'ed be my uncle!

 

[Armchair Expert]

Walters doesn't lead the line for Stoke either does he?

18 months into Pochettino's reign and we get "if we always build for tomorrow today will never come"? Too soon for me. Way way too soon.

Sure a quick fix might be better right now, by what I imagine is a pretty small margin on average... But long term the benefit of developing younger players with a lot of talent can make a huge difference for us. That opportunity cost should be factored in when advocating a short term fix. Not saying a short term fix is never the solution, but it's not the solution we need up front right now. Particularly as we cannot and will not sign a short term fix that's anywhere near Kane in quality right now.

The bit in bold strikes me as odd. I'm hardly advocating a change of philosophy am i. We are going for top four this season, have an outside chance to win the league, this season, and have only one striker. What I am advocating is adding another striker who is old, inexspensive, wont get frustrated, will know hes back up, will work his gonads off, will fit into the team ethic and picks up a few goals. Hence, i suggest Walters is a better alternative to... nobody.

In this instance, as we have a firm first choice striker, i think we shoulds get a firm, inexspensive second chice striker, in case our first choice gets injured. A second choice striker also increases options for Poch. If we buy another Lamela now, for example, will we have t wait three years for them to start delivering? Possibly. We need someone who can help us now, this week, this month.

 

[braineclipse]

And if Kane doesn't stay fit?.... What happens then?

Right now Son starts up front. False 9 and runs from Alli beyond him all the way baby.

Would I want a more like for like replacement for Kane? Of course... But I'm not convinced that Berahino is that player. Like I said, if you think Berahino is the perfect Kane replacement I understand being desperate to sign him.

I'm guessing people will be bricking themselves if Kane doesn't stay fit regardless of who we sign. I don't think many on here will be saying "not to worry, Berahino's got this" if we sign him and Kane is out for 3 months immediately after that...

I don't think our transfer policy should be controlled by fear. I fear Kane getting injured, but I can't see a single player we can realistically sign that will alleviate that fear. Emirates Marketing Project have spent about a billion trying to alleviate their Aguero getting injured fear and have come full circle back to relying on him just as much as ever.

To some extent I would rather accept that this season we'll rely on Kane staying fit to reach our highest targets. I would much rather that than try in vain to sign someone to cover for him that isn't actually a good enough cover anyway - that much is obvious. But if the transfer committee ends up not finding the the right target at the right price to cover for Kane right here, right now, I would much rather they went for a longer term signing rather than a short term "not quite good enough anyway" solution.

However if the transfer committee including Pochettino thinks, like you, that Berahino is the right player to be that Kane backup I would be all for it. He ticks a lot of boxes, although for me he doesn't quite tick all of them. If they think he's the man I hope we manage to find the right price for him.

 

[Vega]

Right now Son starts up front. False 9 and runs from Alli beyond him all the way baby.

Would I want a more like for like replacement for Kane? Of course... But I'm not convinced that Berahino is that player. Like I said, if you think Berahino is the perfect Kane replacement I understand being desperate to sign him.

I'm guessing people will be brickting themselves if Kane doesn't stay fit regardless of who we sign. I don't think many on here will be saying "not to worry, Berahino's got this" if we sign him and Kane is out for 3 months immediately after that...

I don't think our transfer policy should be controlled by fear. I fear Kane getting injured, but I can't see a single player we can realistically sign that will alleviate that fear. Emirates Marketing Project have spent about a billion trying to alleviate their Aguero getting injured fear and have come full circle back to relying on him just as much as ever.

To some extent I would rather accept that this season we'll rely on Kane staying fit to reach our highest targets. I would much rather that than try in vain to sign someone to cover for him that isn't actually a good enough cover anyway - that much is obvious. But if the transfer committee ends up not finding the the right target at the right price to cover for Kane right here, right now, I would much rather they went for a longer term signing rather than a short term "not quite good enough anyway" solution.

However if the transfer committee including Pochettino thinks, like you, that Berahino is the right player to be that Kane backup I would be all for it. He ticks a lot of boxes, although for me he doesn't quite tick all of them. If they think he's the man I hope we manage to find the right price for him.

Give me a player who is different to Kane please, someone who runs the channels or in behind, I think a striking alternative that plays a different way is whats required.

 

[braineclipse]

The bit in bold strikes me as odd. I'm hardly advocating a change of philosophy am i. We are going for top four this season, have an outside chance to win the league, this season, and have only one striker. What I am advocating is adding another striker who is old, inexspensive, wont get frustrated, will know hes back up, will work his cobblers off, will fit into the team ethic and picks up a few goals. Hence, i suggest Walters is a better alternative to... nobody.

In this instance, as we have a firm first choice striker, i think we shoulds get a firm, inexspensive second chice striker, in case our first choice gets injured. A second choice striker also increases options for Poch. If we buy another Lamela now, for example, will we have t wait three years for them to start delivering? Possibly. We need someone who can help us now, this week, this month.

Because you think Son is "nobody" whereas Walters fits the "anyone" category. I disagree with that.

I wouldn't be against a backup signing either to be honest. Though I don't rate Walters as good enough. If Gudjohnsen was 32 and available on loan I would be all for it. I'm not seeing many good enough candidates, though that might be my lack of knowledge of world football. If we're talking about PL experience I definitely don't see many good enough candidates.

 

[braineclipse]

Give me a player who is different to Kane please, someone who runs the channels or in behind, I think a striking alternative that plays a different way is whats required.

Sounds like Son to me...

 

[Pirate55]

Right now Son starts up front. False 9 and runs from Alli beyond him all the way baby.

Would I want a more like for like replacement for Kane? Of course... But I'm not convinced that Berahino is that player. Like I said, if you think Berahino is the perfect Kane replacement I understand being desperate to sign him.

I'm guessing people will be brickting themselves if Kane doesn't stay fit regardless of who we sign. I don't think many on here will be saying "not to worry, Berahino's got this" if we sign him and Kane is out for 3 months immediately after that...

I don't think our transfer policy should be controlled by fear. I fear Kane getting injured, but I can't see a single player we can realistically sign that will alleviate that fear. Emirates Marketing Project have spent about a billion trying to alleviate their Aguero getting injured fear and have come full circle back to relying on him just as much as ever.

To some extent I would rather accept that this season we'll rely on Kane staying fit to reach our highest targets. I would much rather that than try in vain to sign someone to cover for him that isn't actually a good enough cover anyway - that much is obvious. But if the transfer committee ends up not finding the the right target at the right price to cover for Kane right here, right now, I would much rather they went for a longer term signing rather than a short term "not quite good enough anyway" solution.

However if the transfer committee including Pochettino thinks, like you, that Berahino is the right player to be that Kane backup I would be all for it. He ticks a lot of boxes, although for me he doesn't quite tick all of them. If they think he's the man I hope we manage to find the right price for him.

I agree with you on this. But still feel that to sign no-one is our worst option. Kane needs support/cover/backup. We are definitely short on cover for a like for like CF. If he wasn't there (for whatever reason) it would necessitate a change in the way we play. Having now got into a groove like we have for most games, it would be a shame to upset the applecart for lack of investment now. Naturally it has to be someone that Poch wants, that is a given.

 

[Finney Is Back]

If my aunty had testicles she'ed be my uncle!

I think Kane getting injured is a little more likely that your Auntie having testicles.... Actually on second thoughts!!!!

 

[Gutter Boy]

I think this whole link exists because people are frustrated that Son and Njie aren't quite up to speed yet.

I wonder if we sign Berahino and he similarly struggles to have an immediate impact (as nearly all new signings in a system like ours will), whether there will be a chorus for a 'proper CF' again in the summer?

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

I think this whole link exists because people are frustrated that Son and Njie aren't quite up to speed yet.

I wonder if we sign Berahino and he similarly struggles to have an immediate impact (as nearly all new signings in a system like ours will), whether there will be a chorus for a 'proper CF' again in the summer?

This is a very good point, everyone expected Liverpool to kick on with their new wonder manager, but his style of play appears to have asked too much of his players physically and I think anyone we bring in may struggle with what is expected here and may take time to adapt.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Right now Son starts up front. False 9 and runs from Alli beyond him all the way baby.

Would I want a more like for like replacement for Kane? Of course... But I'm not convinced that Berahino is that player. Like I said, if you think Berahino is the perfect Kane replacement I understand being desperate to sign him.

I'm guessing people will be brickting themselves if Kane doesn't stay fit regardless of who we sign. I don't think many on here will be saying "not to worry, Berahino's got this" if we sign him and Kane is out for 3 months immediately after that...

I don't think our transfer policy should be controlled by fear. I fear Kane getting injured, but I can't see a single player we can realistically sign that will alleviate that fear. Emirates Marketing Project have spent about a billion trying to alleviate their Aguero getting injured fear and have come full circle back to relying on him just as much as ever.

To some extent I would rather accept that this season we'll rely on Kane staying fit to reach our highest targets. I would much rather that than try in vain to sign someone to cover for him that isn't actually a good enough cover anyway - that much is obvious. But if the transfer committee ends up not finding the the right target at the right price to cover for Kane right here, right now, I would much rather they went for a longer term signing rather than a short term "not quite good enough anyway" solution.

However if the transfer committee including Pochettino thinks, like you, that Berahino is the right player to be that Kane backup I would be all for it. He ticks a lot of boxes, although for me he doesn't quite tick all of them. If they think he's the man I hope we manage to find the right price for him.

Yuk!.... Having to change the entire way that the team plays simply because one player is out. I get changing our shape and game-plan because of the opposition or even because plan A isn't working, but surely we shouldn't have to do so because one player cannot play?

I think your other points are all valid. Of course losing Kane would be a huge blow and we cannot realistically sign a player who is as good as he is right now and I'm not a member of the "sign anyone" camp. That is one of the main reasons that I DO want Berahino. I think he can do a good job right now (certainly a better job than Son can at number 9). I also think that he has a lot of improvement left in him so he is both an immediate and a long term option. In addition to this he is a player that our manager wanted in the Summer, so we are actually buying a proper long term, identified target as opposed to making a panic buy and having a transfer policy that is "controlled by fear" as you say.

Also I don't see how adding a second number 9 option is being "controlled by fear". I would instead say that it is merely "being sensible". I think the stats show that the number of players who are fit to play every game in a season are considerably lower than the number of players who pick up an injury at some point during the season and have to miss games. In addition to this by having another number 9 option we can manage Kane's playing time better and actually improve for the better that probability of him picking up an injury.

Is there another position on the pitch where we do not have a single player who is able to cover?

GK: Vorm, RB: Trippier, LB: Davies, CH: Wimmer, DM: Bentaleb, CM: Mason, AM: Son/Chadli/N'jie/+ others.... CF: ????

 

[Finney Is Back]

Sounds like Son to me...

Does he do either?.... Seems to me that he drops short to receive the ball, likes to take it on the half turn and then run at the opposition - i.e. a typical number 11/10/7?!?

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think this whole link exists because people are frustrated that Son and Njie aren't quite up to speed yet.

I wonder if we sign Berahino and he similarly struggles to have an immediate impact (as nearly all new signings in a system like ours will), whether there will be a chorus for a 'proper CF' again in the summer?

I think you misunderstand. It isn't because they aren't up to speed, it is because they aren't centre forwards. Both may end up being very good players for Spurs, but neither of them will end up being very good players for Spurs in the centre forward position.

 

[braineclipse]

I agree with you on this. But still feel that to sign no-one is our worst option. Kane needs support/cover/backup. We are definitely short on cover for a like for like CF. If he wasn't there (for whatever reason) it would necessitate a change in the way we play. Having now got into a groove like we have for most games, it would be a shame to upset the applecart for lack of investment now. Naturally it has to be someone that Poch wants, that is a given.

Signing the wrong player is by far the worst option. We've done that enough times in the past to know just how harmful that can be. The net effect of signing the wrong player isn't just a financial cost, it can easily make the team worse.

I think this whole link exists because people are frustrated that Son and Njie aren't quite up to speed yet.

I wonder if we sign Berahino and he similarly struggles to have an immediate impact (as nearly all new signings in a system like ours will), whether there will be a chorus for a 'proper CF' again in the summer?

Spot on for me. Meanwhile we've given game time to Berahino instead of Son meaning that none of them are actually up to speed whereas giving that game time to Son at least makes it more likely that he will settle and start performing more consistently.

Of course if Berahino rally is a much better fit for us than Son up front on his own, and rally is a step up in terms of potential and/or quality, and if Berahino is a good fit in Pochettino's system, and if he is someone that settles quickly that would all change. I'm just not seeing that he ticks all those boxes.

 

[braineclipse]

I think you misunderstand. It isn't because they aren't up to speed, it is because they aren't centre forwards. Both may end up being very good players for Spurs, but neither of them will end up being very good players for Spurs in the centre forward position.

And Henry is a winger, Kane is a #10, Dier isn't a DM, Bale is a full back, Rose isn't a full back and so on and so on ad nauseam.

For the record I think it's at least somewhat likely that as long as Kane is at Spurs (and we prefer a lone striker system) no player will end up being a very good player for us as a striker. They simply won't get enough games to develop into that role for us to get to that level. Again the Emirates Marketing Project example... They sign player after payer to be their perfect backup to Aguero, but no one actually gets enough games to settle in to perform at their best level. Rinse and repeat.

 

[braineclipse]

Does he do either?.... Seems to me that he drops short to receive the ball, likes to take it on the half turn and then run at the opposition - i.e. a typical number 11/10/7?!?

Kane does that too mind...

Son is definitely someone that likes running in behind and working the channels. Part of his success before his injury playing in the AM positions was that he gave us more of than than Eriksen and Lamela did and it helped us quite significantly.