'Round pegs in square holes'

[Mulletperm]

I'm obviously not a football coach, but I cannot get my head around this insistence of playing players out of their best positions. Yeah we are ridden with injuries, but surely something like below would seem better?

-------------------------Vicario--------------------
Porro---------Danso-------------VdV------Souza
------------Palhinha------------Gray-------------
Muani-----------------Xavi--------------------Tel
--------------------Solanke/Richarlison----------

 

[harr1984]

I'll give Tudor some grace so far because of the short time he's been here and the need to learn about your players etc. But if the lineup is not somewhat similar to what you have suggested against Palace then I will be very disappointed.

Just having a left footed left back, and Gray at CM instantly makes a massive difference.....

 

[WillWeEverBeGoodAgain]

Was saying this yesterday
I get we have injuries but he can't keep playing Gray at LB, Gallagher at RM, even Solanke yesterday was playing in the 10 with Xavi shunted to the left

 

[Mikey10]

I'll give Tudor some grace so far because of the short time he's been here and the need to learn about your players etc. But if the lineup is not somewhat similar to what you have suggested against Palace then I will be very disappointed.

Just having a left footed left back, and Gray at CM instantly makes a massive difference.....

I do get the "He's only been here a short time" comments - but he only has a short time!

He was brought in (supposedly) as a short-term specialist. I have seen nothing in his first two games to suggest that he understands what to do to help the team perform differently/better, or that the players are in any way responding positively to him.

Really worrying.

 

[billyiddo]

I do get the "He's only been here a short time" comments - but he only has a short time!

He was brought in (supposedly) as a short-term specialist. I have seen nothing in his first two games to suggest that he understands what to do to help the team perform differently/better, or that the players are in any way responding positively to him.

Really worrying.

Perhaps we're just beyond saving?

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

I'll give Tudor some grace so far because of the short time he's been here and the need to learn about your players etc. But if the lineup is not somewhat similar to what you have suggested against Palace then I will be very disappointed.

Just having a left footed left back, and Gray at CM instantly makes a massive difference.....

My feelings as well re Tudor, in that first game he didn’t have Porro or Danso available whilst Richy, Solanke and Souza were not fit enough to start either, so very much playing with the cards he’s been dealt.

I was expecting a bit better re Fulham though..

 

[Mikey10]

Perhaps we're just beyond saving?

I think there's a large element of that, yeah. A few of us have been saying for a long time that the players just aren't good enough.

That said, I thought he might have been able to inspire them to show a bit more commitment. I have seen nothing in either of his games to suggest that he has achieved even that minimum requirement.

Hopefully Thursday will prove me wrong, but I worry that, as a roll of the dice, this appointment isn't going to change anything.

 

[Mr Gogolak]

They knew (or they were supposed to know) what system he plays when they appointed him. Very few managers are willing to change their ways to fit the players available, even more so when they come for a rescue mission.

I think the idea is to tell the players: I've got this system, it works/it's been fairly successful elsewhere, if you adapt, we're good. It's not Football Manager. In real life, you can't afford to change your formation every other week because there's a lot of training sessions that are set up specifically for your strategy.

I think people are barking at the wrong tree with Tudor. We've been brick under Postecoglou and Frank. Two very different systems, two very different approaches but the same crap results. It's not the system, it's not the manager. It's the players, the injuries and the disastrous squad building.

It was wrong to expect the same kind of bounce as United experienced. We simply don't have the same players. We could hire a third manager and the problems would be exactly the same. Either the players find it within themselves to turn the tide (doesn't look like it's happening) or another team saves us, either by losing to us or by somehow going onto an even poorer run of results.

 

[Bishop]

They knew (or they were supposed to know) what system he plays when they appointed him. Very few managers are willing to change their ways to fit the players available, even more so when they come for a rescue mission.

I think the idea is to tell the players: I've got this system, it works/it's been fairly successful elsewhere, if you adapt, we're good. It's not Football Manager. In real life, you can't afford to change your formation every other week because there's a lot of training sessions that are set up specifically for your strategy.

I think people are barking at the wrong tree with Tudor. We've been brick under Postecoglou and Frank. Two very different systems, two very different approaches but the same crap results. It's not the system, it's not the manager. It's the players, the injuries and the disastrous squad building.

It was wrong to expect the same kind of bounce as United experienced. We simply don't have the same players. We could hire a third manager and the problems would be exactly the same. Either the players find it within themselves to turn the tide (doesn't look like it's happening) or another team saves us, either by losing to us or by somehow going onto an even poorer run of results.

I remember telling @Raziel this at the time. We aren't United, not only do they have better attackers than us, they were already on a largely positive run despite the previous manager not even being that popular. They have real attacking quality that was already performing in Mbuemo and Cunha, these are Moments FC forwards. Guys who don't even need the team to be playing well guys who can be having a dog brick performance themselves yet can stil pull out a random moment of greatness added to Bruno Fernandes who is by definition a Moments FC player and you have a squad that had the potential to do well.

Where our Moments FC players? Where are our guys who just in their day decide to perform a moment of brilliance or take over a game? We don't have it in the the squad even the injured players don't really have these qualities (Kudus does to extent in terms of dribbling but not pure attacking verve).

We don't have Moments FC and we don't have quality balanced system players. It's such a mish mash of unbalanced player profiles and systems that this was bound to happen eventually.

Watching United Bring in Carrick and expecting the same result here was frankly a poor analysis of what was going wrong at Spurs and United.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I think there's a large element of that, yeah. A few of us have been saying for a long time that the players just aren't good enough.

That said, I thought he might have been able to inspire them to show a bit more commitment. I have seen nothing in either of his games to suggest that he has achieved even that minimum requirement.

Hopefully Thursday will prove me wrong, but I worry that, as a roll of the dice, this appointment isn't going to change anything.

I was in favour of Tudor’s appointment given the options available and I like the way he approaches things. And he’s barely had two weeks. However, I’ve a lot of the same worries. We were a mess v Woolwich and some of the space Fulham found yesterday in midfield and even in our box was scary.

I hate to say this because it makes us look like a complete and utter brickshow but if he loses Thursday, rolling the dice again may be our best option. The situation is dire.

 

[Mr Gogolak]

I remember telling @Raziel this at the time. We aren't United, not only do they have better attackers than us, they were already on a largely positive run despite the previous manager not even being that popular. They have real attacking quality that was already performing in Mbuemo and Cunha, these are Moments FC forwards. Guys who don't even need the team to be playing well guys who can be having a dog brick performance themselves yet can stil pull out a random moment of greatness added to Bruno Fernandes who is by definition a Moments FC player and you have a squad that had the potential to do well.

Where our Moments FC players? Where are our guys who just in their day decide to perform a moment of brilliance or take over a game? We don't have it in the the squad even the injured players don't really have these qualities (Kudus does to extent in terms of dribbling but not pure attacking verve).

We don't have Moments FC and we don't have quality balanced system players. It's such a mish mash of unbalanced player profiles and systems that this was bound to happen eventually.

Watching United Bring in Carrick and expecting the same result here was frankly a poor analysis of what was going wrong at Spurs and United.

A lot has been said and written about our lack of left-footed players, but it's the midfield that I find the most baffling, to be honest. We just signed the same type of players over and over again, to the point that we only have one decent passer of the ball in the first team squad. They can't score, they can't pass, they can't even defend that well... they just carry the ball and run around - a lot.

I'm sorry to say so because I really wanted him gone, but the only kind of football this squad is fit for is Angeball - little technical/passing ability required, lots of movement and speed in defense. I'm not saying we'd fare much better with him but he's the only manager I can think of who might - just might - make a difference if we sack Tudor.

By the way, so much for Arsenal being a 'free hit': two games in and we're already considering a change of manager...

 

[DubSpur]

A lot has been said and written about our lack of left-footed players, but it's the midfield that I find the most baffling, to be honest. We just signed the same type of players over and over again, to the point that we only have one decent passer of the ball in the first team squad. They can't score, they can't pass, they can't even defend that well... they just carry the ball and run around - a lot.

I'm sorry to say so because I really wanted him gone, but the only kind of football this squad is fit for is Angeball - little technical/passing ability required, lots of movement and speed in defense. I'm not saying we'd fare much better with him but he's the only manager I can think of who might - just might - make a difference if we sack Tudor.

By the way, so much for Arsenal being a 'free hit': two games in and we're already considering a change of manager...

Letting Johnson go to sign Gallagher made no sense. We're getting the same type of player as we already had in midfield and let someone go, who even if he's not great, gives us something different on the wing and knows how to score a goal.

 

[yiddo37]

I'm obviously not a football coach, but I cannot get my head around this insistence of playing players out of their best positions. Yeah we are ridden with injuries, but surely something like below would seem better?

-------------------------Vicario--------------------
Porro---------Danso-------------VdV------Souza
------------Palhinha------------Gray-------------
Muani-----------------Xavi--------------------Tel
--------------------Solanke/Richarlison----------

Far too much sense with that lineup

 

[Mr Gogolak]

Letting Johnson go to sign Gallagher made no sense. We're getting the same type of player as we already had in midfield and let someone go, who even if he's not great, gives us something different on the wing and knows how to score a goal.

It was such a poor decision that even a yes-man like Frank said it left us weaker. It's scary how quickly the wheels fall off the wagon at this level. Ten games into the 2023/24 season, we were top of the league. Two+ years of complete mismanagement (and winning a European trophy in the meantime!) and it looks like there's nothing we can do to avoid the drop. Unreal.

 

[mudshark]

It's "square pegs in round holes," by the way (thus resulting in the corners of said pegs getting rounded off, or not fitting at all). Just saying

 

[Bishop]

A lot has been said and written about our lack of left-footed players, but it's the midfield that I find the most baffling, to be honest. We just signed the same type of players over and over again, to the point that we only have one decent passer of the ball in the first team squad. They can't score, they can't pass, they can't even defend that well... they just carry the ball and run around - a lot.

I'm sorry to say so because I really wanted him gone, but the only kind of football this squad is fit for is Angeball - little technical/passing ability required, lots of movement and speed in defense. I'm not saying we'd fare much better with him but he's the only manager I can think of who might - just might - make a difference if we sack Tudor.

By the way, so much for Arsenal being a 'free hit': two games in and we're already considering a change of manager...

I'm like you, I think our midfield is utterly unabalanced without a range of attributes that are needed, the most key being a fudging passer. I remember in the squad thread before the season started I said I wanted a CM and I allowed myself to be gas lot into accepting that Palhina was that solution.

I bloody knew the truth but I allowed the positive thread to trick my brain into ignoring what I already knew.

 

[Mr Gogolak]

I'm like you, I think our midfield is utterly unabalanced without a range of attributes that are needed, the most key being a fudging passer. I remember in the squad thread before the season started I said I wanted a CM and I allowed myself to be gas lot into accepting that Palhina was that solution.

I bloody knew the truth but I allowed the positive thread to trick my brain into ignoring what I already knew.

I think Frank needed to be sacked but the irony is that, with hindsight, his early-season results could be the thing that keeps us up. At some point, his position became untenable and it's clear the players turn on him, but without that early form, our fate would be sealed.

It's such a shame they wouldn't sack him before the transfer window. We could have appointed a full time manager and give him a couple of signings that may have changed the dressing room atmosphere. We're never going to stay up on quality or tactics or whatever. The relegation battle will be played inside the players' heads, in my opinion.

Now, it would take a small miracle to save us.

 

[Benny_Lad]

Letting Johnson go to sign Gallagher made no sense. We're getting the same type of player as we already had in midfield and let someone go, who even if he's not great, gives us something different on the wing and knows how to score a goal.

With Gallagher playing Johnson's position yesterday. Heads should roll.

 

[Benny_Lad]

I think Frank needed to be sacked but the irony is that, with hindsight, his early-season results could be the thing that keeps us up. At some point, his position became untenable and it's clear the players turn on him, but without that early form, our fate would be sealed.

It's such a shame they wouldn't sack him before the transfer window. We could have appointed a full time manager and give him a couple signing that may have changed the dressing room atmosphere. We're never going to stay up on quality or tactics or whatever. The relegation battle will be played inside the players' heads, in my opinion.

Now, it would take a small miracle to save us.

There's no way they were doing that - it costs money. They basically didnt take the drop seriously.

 

[Mr Gogolak]

There's no way they were doing that - it costs money. They basically didnt take the drop seriously.

Clearly, they didn't because I remember them saying they didn't want to impact next season's budget with short-term signings. I'm sure we'll all have a great laugh together in the Championship...