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Putin & Russia

Robbo said:
That's insane. That little old man in Moscow really feels like he can do anything, doesn't he. I'm obviously speculating, but really, who else could it be?
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Well despite being few in numbers, false flags do happen across the globe.
Given the dosage was survivable, it isn't far from imagination to also conclude that someone else perpetrated the action knowing full well the obvious blame would fall at Russia's feet (who, of course, do have history with this sort of thing.)

Seeing how most jump to the same conclusion, it's obviously a good tactic.
 
Mikey10 said:
Help to enforce a no-fly zone. Standing back and letting Putin do what he wants for two decades has got us here.
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I think it's too risky having a no fly zone, the implications of shooting down Russian jets is too much. In any case I'm not sure how much effect it would have, this doesn't seem to be a war fought from the air from all the reports I read.
 
Trixster said:
Well despite being few in numbers, false flags do happen across the globe.
Given the dosage was survivable, it isn't far from imagination to also conclude that someone else perpetrated the action knowing full well the obvious blame would fall at Russia's feet (who, of course, do have history with this sort of thing.)

Seeing how most jump to the same conclusion, it's obviously a good tactic.
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While there will certainly be exaggerrations and propaganda from both sides in this conflict, I struggle to see who might be behind such a false flag operation - if that's what it is. Do you have any suggestions who it might be, and why it's plausible that these individuals/organisations did it?
 
I think its a pretty safe bet there is only one single person on this planet who would authorise the poisoning of Roman Abramovich.
 
Robbo said:
While there will certainly be exaggerrations and propaganda from both sides in this conflict, I struggle to see who might be behind such a false flag operation - if that's what it is. Do you have any suggestions who it might be, and why it's plausible that these individuals/organisations did it?
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Who stands to gain from it?
Propaganda wise, Ukraine. Can't trust the Ruski's, they have a history of doing this and now they do it again. Gives Zelensky even more credit to show in front of the media etc. etc.

Didn't this happen in Kyiv and with just the three of them, so this leaves you what - Abramovic doing it himself, or one of the other two?
Someone pro-Russian hiding amongst the few people that would have had access, those damn chefs!

Hell, could even be something else that caused this - but the blame wagon will roll firmly to Russia because of previous and the usual headlines will surface.

I struggle to see why this is automatically Russia at fault and that there can be no other explanation. Especially given the supposed dosage.
 
Trixster said:
Who stands to gain from it?
Propaganda wise, Ukraine. Can't trust the Ruski's, they have a history of doing this and now they do it again. Gives Zelensky even more credit to show in front of the media etc. etc.

Didn't this happen in Kyiv and with just the three of them, so this leaves you what - Abramovic doing it himself, or one of the other two?
Someone pro-Russian hiding amongst the few people that would have had access, those damn chefs!

Hell, could even be something else that caused this - but the blame wagon will roll firmly to Russia because of previous and the usual headlines will surface.

I struggle to see why this is automatically Russia at fault and that there can be no other explanation. Especially given the supposed dosage.
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I don't see how it would gain the Ukrainians to risk sabotaging the peace talks with a false flag poisoning operation, regardless of how serious the talks are perceived to be. The potential blowback would just be too massive for a nation and a president who already had the backing of most of the western world. Especially considering this was a week into the war - when the Russians were stalling and before Zelensky raised serious criticism at the west for not taking enough action.

For me, it's not plausible. I find it far more logical to believe this is an action approved by the vindictive and irrational president of the invading country, who has shown in the past the lengths he's willing to go to get his way.

The second most plausible explanation IMO, is something entirely different - an accidental poisoning of some sort. Which could explain why it happened in Kyiv. It's still a bit far fetched.
 
Rorschach said:
Abramovich I don't have much sympathy for. We're witnessing the fall of the Roman empire built on stolen blood money. fudge him. But if it is true (and it may not be according to some) Putin tried to take out the Ukrainian peace negotiators also. Insane is the word. And some are laughably pearl-clutching because of a comment Biden made after what is widely considered one of the great speeches given by an American president.
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Putin has been trying to goad the west from the start, and he will keep doing so.
NATO is a security blanket, but it's existence is also it's weakness - in times like this it's members have to act as one irrespective of their views.

Putin is standing there knowing no-one will take him out whilst finding out who the next Franz Ferdinand is.
 
Trixster said:
Who stands to gain from it?
Propaganda wise, Ukraine. Can't trust the Ruski's, they have a history of doing this and now they do it again. Gives Zelensky even more credit to show in front of the media etc. etc.
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Definitely Ukraine, timely as well, I was just starting to lean towards Putin :rolleyes:
 
monkeybarry said:
Putin has been trying to goad the west from the start, and he will keep doing so.
NATO is a security blanket, but it's existence is also it's weakness - in times like this it's members have to act as one irrespective of their views.

Putin is standing there knowing no-one will take him out whilst finding out who the next Franz Ferdinand is.
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Putin has been prodding for a decade at least, he is a smart guy, that has been ahead of the west for a long time. My and many instant reactions to this has been; he was allowed to get away with it because of rapprochement and now we (the west) are standing firm - he has been exposed.

but part of me still believes he is playing a longer game, I’m just not sure what it is.
 
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DTA said:
Putin has been prodding for a decade at least he is a smart guy, that has been ahead of the west for a long time. My and many instant reactions to this has been; he was allowed to get away with it because of rapprochement and now we (the west) are standing firm - he has been exposed.

but part of me still believes he is playing a longer game, I’m just not sure what it is.
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The long game is political destabilisation.
Sew seeds of anger in the west by creating socioeconomic tensions (IE creating refugees) whilst showing how toothless the west is (he killed and attempted to kill British residents on British soil and all he got was a stern Letter) and chip away at bits of territory.
It's not a huge leap from there to societal meltdown. All it takes is one or two Schengen countries to hit a huge crisis point and it could all go off
 
monkeybarry said:
Putin has been trying to goad the west from the start, and he will keep doing so.
NATO is a security blanket, but it's existence is also it's weakness - in times like this it's members have to act as one irrespective of their views.

Putin is standing there knowing no-one will take him out whilst finding out who the next Franz Ferdinand is.
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NATO are acting as one (more or less). It is quite impressive how united they are on this considering the atrophy that took root after the so-called end of history. I would argue NATO look as strong they have ever done and will become even more formidable with Germany's change of approach to defense, and new potential members in Finland and Sweden. This conflict has given NATO back it's raison d'etre. In fact, I think this has exposed how weak and corrupt the Russian military is.

Putin may not get the Julius Ceasar treatment but Ukraine stemming the Russian advance in the north and pushing it back in some places is the beginning of the end of this war, and a potential mortal wound to Putin. Strong men need to be seen as invincible to make their shtick work.
The West's long game is maintaining the sanctions and that may regionalise the whole of Russia, even more so than it is now.
 
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