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Putin & Russia

Baleforce said:
Well we are in it too.

Corruption and human rights violations have been our hobby for hundreds of years.

It’s easier to bring about change with them inside the tent I think.

Make membership conditional on the changes, and the benefits become something real that they would then worry about losing.
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Membership was conditional to changes. They hadn't been met hence ukraine wasn't a member. Now they are offering membership without having to meet those conditions.
Other countries such as bulgaria had to raise their standards to get membership and they did. Which was good for the bulgarian people. The eu also then invested in the country to improve it economically (poland and ireland are great examples of this).
 
Lilbaz said:
Think you might have missed the point of godwins law. It states that if a debate goes on long enough, no matter the subject. At some point one poster would claim a comparison between the subject and hitler and the holocaust. Good example was having to wear masks. Idiots compared it to the holocaust even though there was no comparison to be made.

Can putins actions be compared? Not unless he starts ethnic cleansing/genocide (lets hope he doesn't).

The point godwin was making is that people should think first.
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I think you have missed the point or adjusted it to suit your needs. It has been common across many different platforms for years that if someone mentions Hitler then people and usually people with opposition views will seek to shut them down. Not particularly against it. But that is how it has been for a very long time.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
I think you have missed the point or adjusted it to suit your needs. It has been common across many different platforms for years that if someone mentions Hitler then people and usually people with opposition views will seek to shut them down. Not particularly against it. But that is how it has been for a very long time.
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It's what godwin himself said.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
I heard on the BBC that the Germans and Dutch have already said that the EU needs to be careful what it promises to Ukraine. It’s a long way from a done deal unfortunately.
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It is almost like they hope to after a peace deal return to the same trading conditions with Russia as before. Yet people think I am a cynic.
 
Lilbaz said:
It's what godwin himself said.
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He may have done but that does not mean that language can not be taken on by others. Happens all through time and places. I do not think I have ever heard a spurs fan use the y word negatively. Has been the case that for years I have watched how anyone mentioning Hitler would be accused of it.
 
Lilbaz said:
That one of the most corrupted countries on the planet with known human rights violitions on it's own citizens, is will be a member of the eu. It opens the door to others to join too. You already have orban influencing eu decisions while flouting their rules. Believe that this will lead to a lessening of values in the eu and that is a bad thing for the world.

Cutting trade with russia while accepting ukrainian refugees may have been better. But as i said i do applaud the eu for this. Just fear it might be a mistake.
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Malta is already pretty world leading for corruption.
 
Lilbaz said:
That one of the most corrupted countries on the planet with known human rights violitions on it's own citizens, is will be a member of the eu. It opens the door to others to join too. You already have orban influencing eu decisions while flouting their rules. Believe that this will lead to a lessening of values in the eu and that is a bad thing for the world.

Cutting trade with russia while accepting ukrainian refugees may have been better. But as i said i do applaud the eu for this. Just fear it might be a mistake.
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They have started an admission procedure. That's still a long way from actually joining the EU. It's usually a fairly long process, and at a time suitable I imagine concerns will be raised, this is not that time for rather obvious reasons.

EU countries are cutting trade with Russia (not a complete cut obviously, but significant cuts). EU agreed to let in Ukrainian refugees for up to three years without having to apply for asylum.
 
Baleforce said:
Well we are in it too.

Corruption and human rights violations have been our hobby for hundreds of years.

It’s easier to bring about change with them inside the tent I think.

Make membership conditional on the changes, and the benefits become something real that they would then worry about losing.
Click to expand...

It's different though. We set the rules. So we can just say that anything going through Caymans and Bermuda doesn't count
 
Lilbaz said:
Membership was conditional to changes. They hadn't been met hence ukraine wasn't a member. Now they are offering membership without having to meet those conditions.
Other countries such as bulgaria had to raise their standards to get membership and they did. Which was good for the bulgarian people. The eu also then invested in the country to improve it economically (poland and ireland are great examples of this).
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What do you mean by "offering membership"?
 
Russia threatened Finland with "military actions" if they enter NATO. The response from a member of the Finnish government was hilarious:
"Well, we dont really care. There are already tens of thousands Russian soldiers in Finland, along the border. 6 feet under."
 
Lilbaz said:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...ediate-talks-ukrainian-membership-2022-02-28/
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So... "immediately grant Ukraine a EU candidate country status and open membership talks"?

Am I missing something here?

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/28/1083528087/ukraine-european-union

Indeed, the EU's own website stresses that "becoming a member of the EU is a complex procedure which does not happen overnight."

The process involves time-consuming negotiations

A country can only apply once it satisfies certain conditions, including having a free-market economy and stable democracy and accepting all EU legislation as well as the euro. Then it submits its application to the European Council, which asks the European Commission to assess the country's ability to meet those criteria.
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Offering candidate status with time consuming negotiations and assessments set to follow? Hardly offering membership...
 
braineclipse said:
So... "immediately grant Ukraine a EU candidate country status and open membership talks"?

Am I missing something here?

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/28/1083528087/ukraine-european-union



Offering candidate status with time consuming negotiations and assessments set to follow? Hardly offering membership...
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"We, the Presidents of the EU member states: the Republic of Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, the Republic of Estonia, the Republic of Latvia, the Republic of Lithuania, the Republic of Poland, the Slovak Republic, and the Republic of Slovenia strongly believe that Ukraine deserves receiving an immediate EU accession perspective," the letter said."

Accession means (in this instance) joining. Does it not?
 
Lilbaz said:
"We, the Presidents of the EU member states: the Republic of Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, the Republic of Estonia, the Republic of Latvia, the Republic of Lithuania, the Republic of Poland, the Slovak Republic, and the Republic of Slovenia strongly believe that Ukraine deserves receiving an immediate EU accession perspective," the letter said."

Accession means (in this instance) joining. Does it not?
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No. Apparently its a phased process that could be completed by 2030, if fast-tracked
 
Kandi1977 said:
Russia threatened Finland with "military actions" if they enter NATO. The response from a member of the Finnish government was hilarious:
"Well, we dont really care. There are already tens of thousands Russian soldiers in Finland, along the border. 6 feet under."
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it is funny, but not helpful

also, maybe not best to draw attention to the fact of why they were fighting the Russians there…
 
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