• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Putin & Russia

Lilbaz said:
Ukraine is russias cuba (actually much more important). Think how close we came to nuclear war in the missile crisis. Russia are more determined.
Click to expand...

fine we won’t put Nuclear weapons in Ukraine, just like USSR didn’t put them in CUba.

seem to remember someone called Castro living quite long though, so America didn’t invade like Russia just have.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Yes, limited hardware and plenty of intelligence achieve the aim of not letting Russia completely off the hook to waltz in. So in an imperfect situation, it is probably right. Putin had this plan since 2014. Intelligence sources have been aware of it.
Click to expand...
So let them in, just make it a little more difficult?
 
scaramanga said:
So let them in, just make it a little more difficult?
Click to expand...

Yes.

Forgot perfect solutions. They are not available. As well as providing intelligence and some military backing, cut the Russian establishment off from doing business internationally - that will hurt the elite most, and put the most pressure on Putin. I don't think there are other viable options.
 
DTA said:
fine we won’t put Nuclear weapons in Ukraine, just like USSR didn’t put them in CUba.

seem to remember someone called Castro living quite long though, so America didn’t invade like Russia just have.
Click to expand...

Think you'll find the USSR didn't station nukes in Cuba. They acquiesced, didn't they?
 
SpurMeUp said:
Yes.

Forgot perfect solutions. They are not available. As well as providing intelligence and some military backing, cut the Russian establishment off from doing business internationally - that will hurt the elite most, and put the most pressure on Putin. I don't think there are other viable options.
Click to expand...
There are plenty of viable options. The only ones with any value all begin with the premise that Ukraine must be free of all Russian troops.

Hopefully sanctions will do that although it appears they won't. I'm not in favour of Biden's gutless, dithering, "let's wait a month" either.

What it takes will ultimately be down to Putin. We, as democracies that have the ability and therefore the moral responsibility must meet that measure.
 
Last edited:
scaramanga said:
There are plenty of viable options. The only ones with any value all begin with the premise that Ukraine must be free of all Russian troops.

Hopefully sanctions will do that although it appears they won't. I'm not in favour of Biden's gutless, dithering, "let's wait a month" either.

What it takes will ultimately be down to Putin. We, as democracies that have the ability and therefore the moral responsibility to meet that measure.
Click to expand...

What do you suggest? Troops on the ground? Massive weapons shipments? Something else?
 
braineclipse said:
What do you suggest? Troops on the ground? Massive weapons shipments? Something else?
Click to expand...
I think we have to very quickly move to full (North Korea level) sanctions. No imports or exports, no trading in Sterling, Dollar or the Euro, removal from all international payment systems.

If that doesn't work then we move to heavily arming the Ukrainian forces, although it may be too late by that point.

If that still fails then the only remaining alternative would be to use our own forces. It's not an answer I like at all but I cannot accept a solution where we sit and allow this to happen.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Nations that spend huge amounts developing arms with a deeply embedded military infrastructure, tend to go to war intermittently. They have to justify all the billions of spending and use some of the hardware. The US also tends to flex its military and get its troops deployed from time to time. If it is left stagnating for too long, the military powers that be fear it will all be lost or cut. There is always pressure within these nations to flex their military from time to time.

Russia spends the highest % of GDP of anywhere pretty much on the military if I recall.
Click to expand...
Close, but not quite....

Saudi Arabia (8.4%)
Israel (5.6%)
Russia (4.3%)
US (3.7%)
India (2.9%)
South Korea (2.8%)
UK (2.7%).

Remember though that Russia's GDP isn't particularly impressive, which means that their real terms spend on military is akin to a reasonably powerful European nation and nowhere near the might of the US alone, let alone the combined might of NATO.... In real terms the UK alone now spends more money on their military than Russia do.... From the 2022 edition of The Military Balance, from the International Institute for Strategic Studies (this uses average currency exchange rates):

US: $738b
China: $193b
India: $64b
UK: $62b
Russia: $61b
France: $57b
Germany: $51b
 
scaramanga said:
I think we have to very quickly move to full (North Korea level) sanctions. No imports or exports, no trading in Sterling, Dollar or the Euro, removal from all international payment systems.

If that doesn't work then we move to heavily arming the Ukrainian forces, although it may be too late by that point.

If that still fails then the only remaining alternative would be to use our own forces. It's not an answer I like at all but I cannot accept a solution where we sit and allow this to happen.
Click to expand...
I can't see a scenario where NATO would deploy forces to Ukraine. That would trigger a much wider conflict across Europe and on one side there's a nutter with nukes.

The other stuff, yep dial that up to 11.
 
Last edited:
Finney Is Back said:
Close, but not quite....

Saudi Arabia (8.4%)
Israel (5.6%)
Russia (4.3%)
US (3.7%)
India (2.9%)
South Korea (2.8%)
UK (2.7%).

Remember though that Russia's GDP isn't particularly impressive, which means that their real terms spend on military is akin to a reasonably powerful European nation and nowhere near the might of the US alone, let alone the combined might of NATO.... In real terms the UK alone now spends more money on their military than Russia do.... From the 2022 edition of The Military Balance, from the International Institute for Strategic Studies (this uses average currency exchange rates):

US: $738b
China: $193b
India: $64b
UK: $62b
Russia: $61b
France: $57b
Germany: $51b
Click to expand...
That is very surprising, good info that.
 
Rorschach said:
I can't see a scenario where NATO would deploy forces to Ukraine. That would trigger a must wider conflict across Europe and on one side there's a nutter with nukes.

The other stuff, yep dial that up to 11.
Click to expand...
I don't think nukes should come into the equation.

The entirety of superpower peace over almost a century has been based on the fact that holding enough nukes to obliterate an entire country will stop others from firing them at you. If that isn't the case, then whether we go to the defence of a nation that desperately needs it or not, we're in big trouble. If Putin is unhinged enough and secure enough in his power that he can fire nukes at countries that have them, then we don't have any security against nuclear attacks anyway.
 
Isn't this mostly the Ukraine's fault. I mean break away by all means do it without any blemish. But wage a fringe war on minority groups, ally with the US, Nato membership too quickly and I guess you can expect something a reaction fro. Putin like this. I mean if Russia lives in your neighbourhood you'd won't want to draw any attention at all. Ukrainians and Russians can just get along just fine without NATO.




Sent from my SM-T865 using Fapatalk
 
metalgear said:
Isn't this mostly the Ukraine's fault. I mean break away by all means do it without any blemish. But wage a fringe war on minority groups, ally with the US, Nato membership too quickly and I guess you can expect something a reaction fro. Putin like this. I mean if Russia lives in your neighbourhood you'd won't want to draw any attention at all. Ukrainians and Russians can just get along just fine without NATO.

Sent from my SM-T865 using Fapatalk
Click to expand...

It’s 99.9% Putin’s fault. The remaining part is debatable.
 
metalgear said:
Isn't this mostly the Ukraine's fault. I mean break away by all means do it without any blemish. But wage a fringe war on minority groups, ally with the US, Nato membership too quickly and I guess you can expect something a reaction fro. Putin like this. I mean if Russia lives in your neighbourhood you'd won't want to draw any attention at all. Ukrainians and Russians can just get along just fine without NATO.




Sent from my SM-T865 using Fapatalk
Click to expand...
If Russia hadn't been shouting "mine" like a toddler and snatching away pieces of Ukraine for the last decade, do you think Ukraine would have even cared about NATO membership?

What they want is security and safety. We should have worked harder to give them that.
 
thfcsteff said:
OK. Listen. I've had a very rough couple of fudging weeks, so forgive my usual lack of indulgence for your trolling (this is your second cheap shot).

Let me spell out EXACTLY what I was suggesting.

That Putin has been stoking the fires of destabilization in both Europe and the US before making such a move.
Get it?
Whether anyone agrees with Brexit or not (and quite clearly you agree with it, marvelous, bully for you and all that) it has been a major contributing factor to the timing of this situation. Again, this observation has NOTHING to do whether someone likes or dislikes Brexit. It is a fact.
Ditto the almost total decimation of whatever 'democracy' you might say the US has had in place.
You DO understand why I am suggesting that point, right?
As for my question about how much dirty money has flowed through the country over the years, I'd say it is a pretty valid question.

Before you jump on the fudging troll steed again, let me remind you that all fingers point to Russia having assassinated/attempted top assassinate its own nationals on English soil. Without much more than a politely disturbed 'what the devil is all this about, that's no good' reaction.

So my friend, they are points worth raising for discussion and questions worth asking. If you just want to take an 'anti-English' angle and sulk about it, I hope it feels better than actually thinking about why this brick is happening, or at least trying to discuss it.

p.s. Let's just see what Boris the Clown does. I won't hold my breath to see if he'll lead the charge.
Click to expand...

Johnson will just virtual signal the same as the rest of us. I will be lighting my house blue and yellow tonight then leafld a round of applause to show my support. Then probably pop down the pub.

Yep Putin is a bad man, very naughty. But why have people not been making more of it for years. Do we only care about things when they are topical I prefer tropical to topical subjects.

The EU expanded into his back yard then expected those nasty racist British to pay for the defence of Europe.

If anything the words coming out of Johnson's mouth on this issue have been the best he has done on world leadership level. It is another reason to hate him, because he can be statesman like when he needs to be, The cnut.

I appreciate no criticism of the EU is allowed on here. Maintain that anyone wanting self governance is racist but appalled by the loss of life.

Sorry your having a tough few weeks. Exercise some mi
thfcsteff said:
OK. Listen. I've had a very rough couple of fudging weeks, so forgive my usual lack of indulgence for your trolling (this is your second cheap shot).

Let me spell out EXACTLY what I was suggesting.

That Putin has been stoking the fires of destabilization in both Europe and the US before making such a move.
Get it?
Whether anyone agrees with Brexit or not (and quite clearly you agree with it, marvelous, bully for you and all that) it has been a major contributing factor to the timing of this situation. Again, this observation has NOTHING to do whether someone likes or dislikes Brexit. It is a fact.
Ditto the almost total decimation of whatever 'democracy' you might say the US has had in place.
You DO understand why I am suggesting that point, right?
As for my question about how much dirty money has flowed through the country over the years, I'd say it is a pretty valid question.

Before you jump on the fudging troll steed again, let me remind you that all fingers point to Russia having assassinated/attempted top assassinate its own nationals on English soil. Without much more than a politely disturbed 'what the devil is all this about, that's no good' reaction.

So my friend, they are points worth raising for discussion and questions worth asking. If you just want to take an 'anti-English' angle and sulk about it, I hope it feels better than actually thinking about why this brick is happening, or at least trying to discuss it.

p.s. Let's just see what Boris the Clown does. I won't hold my breath to see if he'll lead the charge.
Click to expand...

How the good lord has Brexit anything to do with the timing of the invasion. Our missiles are still stationed in Eastern Europe as are some of our troops. We did not withdraw them after deciding to go for self governance.

It is amazing how the self hating Brits will try to blame this country for every issue.

You are right Putin has been murdering people on British soil. Yet I did not see anyone out protesting about that when either Labour or Conservative were in power.

What will Johnson do about it? Virtual signal like the rest of us. I will be lighting my house blue and yellow tonight will clapping my support for Ukraine. Then probably head down the pub most likely.

I forgot no criticism of the EU was allowed on here and a country no longer in it should be paying to defend it because as always it does not want to pay itself.

Sorry you are going through a hard time mate. Exercise a healthy diet and mindfulness and perhaps turning of the news are the only things I can suggest.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back