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Putin & Russia

Jordinho said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1607494455720022018
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Either Musk is being sarcastic or he isn't the genius his marketing blurb made him out to be. Either way, he is straying into areas he shouldn't be anywhere near. This response to a wildly inaccurate thread and most likely the bit about him being US president (he can't be as he is from SA) shows he is really rather similar to other wannabe autocrats. They all respond to the same type of fluffing.
 
Japanese prime minister suggests nuclear bombs would be a crime against humanity. Russian prime minister suggests Japanese prime minister should commit suicide.
 
The Russian response is mind boggling as usual.

"The west are escalating this conflict by providing more weapons"

"The west have no interest in a diplomatic solution"

"This will have consequences for the relationship between Russia and Germany"

"The Ukrainian people will pay for this"
 
Jordinho said:
The Russian response is mind boggling as usual.

"The west are escalating this conflict by providing more weapons"

"The west have no interest in a diplomatic solution"

"This will have consequences for the relationship between Russia and Germany"

"The Ukrainian people will pay for this"
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Baffling, yet so close to being accurate.

Add "... instead of allowing us to invade and conquer a sovereign nation" to the first sentence and "... that would allow us to annex parts of Ukraine" to the second sentence and it would be a good summary of what's going on.
 
The "peace"-negotiations back then were no more real peace negotiations than JFK jr is alive. A proper peace negotiation needs parties on equal terms, not one thug who has just smacked down a person on the street, stolen his wallet, kicked his wife, and then demanded the fellow "to stop fighting" in the interest of peace.

History does not neccessarily repeat itself, but it damn well rhymes. And these days I'm never entirely sure whether I'm reading a history book or the news of the day. Any macaron who had gone out of those so-called negotiations with a piece of paper with Putins name on it would have ended up cross-referenced to Neville Chamberlain and Edouard Daladier. And the war would be in its second phase by now.

What goes on in Russia now can also serve as a reminder to everone who ever groaned in school to their history teacher: "oooh, when will I EVER need to know about this!!!".
Right now, Russian kids are being taught that the great patriotic war started in 1941, and ended in may 1945, the Soviet Union _alone_ stood against the combined west, who were out to destroy them.
Hardly a single mention of the fact that the Soviet Union started the war on friendly/collaboratory terms with Nazi-Germany, that they gobbled up half of Poland, pieces of Bessarabia, Finland and the baltic states. Nor a mention of the fact that while the Soviet Union did that, UK and her dominions stood alone against Hitler for over a year, was almost pounded to pulp, but still, after the German attack on the Soviet Union on june 21st 1941 they immediately promised aid and started to deliver war materiell to the SU.

If you control the history, you can control the future. If you don't know your history, you could very well end up with no future at all. Give in to Putin, and you may wish you had none...
 
Junior19 said:
The "peace"-negotiations back then were no more real peace negotiations than JFK jr is alive. A proper peace negotiation needs parties on equal terms, not one thug who has just smacked down a person on the street, stolen his wallet, kicked his wife, and then demanded the fellow "to stop fighting" in the interest of peace.

History does not neccessarily repeat itself, but it damn well rhymes. And these days I'm never entirely sure whether I'm reading a history book or the news of the day. Any macaron who had gone out of those so-called negotiations with a piece of paper with Putins name on it would have ended up cross-referenced to Neville Chamberlain and Edouard Daladier. And the war would be in its second phase by now.

What goes on in Russia now can also serve as a reminder to everone who ever groaned in school to their history teacher: "oooh, when will I EVER need to know about this!!!".
Right now, Russian kids are being taught that the great patriotic war started in 1941, and ended in may 1945, the Soviet Union _alone_ stood against the combined west, who were out to destroy them.
Hardly a single mention of the fact that the Soviet Union started the war on friendly/collaboratory terms with Nazi-Germany, that they gobbled up half of Poland, pieces of Bessarabia, Finland and the baltic states. Nor a mention of the fact that while the Soviet Union did that, UK and her dominions stood alone against Hitler for over a year, was almost pounded to pulp, but still, after the German attack on the Soviet Union on june 21st 1941 they immediately promised aid and started to deliver war materiell to the SU.

If you control the history, you can control the future. If you don't know your history, you could very well end up with no future at all. Give in to Putin, and you may wish you had none...
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History is a narrative. But we can consider some facts to balance out this perspective. 24,000,000 Soviet civilians and soldiers were killed in WWII. What is the equivalent figure for Brits? 450,700.

Anyone who thinks we shouldn't pursue peace is mad. The only question is how you attain it. You have to have some kind of leverage. The west has gone down an understandable route of funding and fueling the war. Once you start with this approach, you have to continue. And there is little realistic chance of resolution now. Because Putin leaves in a box or not at all. He wins and survives, or loses and is replaced/killed. That is what the west is banking on. But it doesn't seem like a particularly assured strategy. Look at the history of western instigated 'regime change', it normally leads to years more conflict, ruined nations and you end up asking: why did they stick their oar in at all?
 
SpurMeUp said:
History is a narrative. But we can consider some facts to balance out this perspective. 24,000,000 Soviet civilians and soldiers were killed in WWII.
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yes, and some 44% of those were ukrainian, which you won’t hear in russian school classes either.

Of course the ultimate goal is peace. That is the point! For peace negotiations to have any meaning at all _both_ parties must have a vested interest in successful outcome of the negotiations, and both must have leverage. Those factors were not in place. Russia wanted a mere truce, to regroup and attack again.

Permanent peace was never on the table. And at that point the negotiations become a sham.

is regime change a goal? Not neccesarily. However it becomes a more likely outcome by the minute.
 
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