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Pre Season 2017

AdamB said:
Agreed. If I was an opposing manager, I'd play 4-5-1 against us and press as much as poss. It's the tactics we play least well against
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That is great in theory, but developing a pressing game isn't as easy as just telling a team of players to press the opposition. The press has to be performed by every member of the team and is often scenario based (i.e. will occur in certain areas of the pitch or when certain players/positions have the ball). Otherwise the opposition are likely to have an easy out ball and a promising attacking situation against an opponent who has over committed forward. Liverpool and Emirates Marketing Project are able to play that way against us as their players are suited to that style of play and their coaching concentrates on this.
 
Finney Is Back said:
That is great in theory, but developing a pressing game isn't as easy as just telling a team of players to press the opposition. The press has to be performed by every member of the team and is often scenario based (i.e. will occur in certain areas of the pitch or when certain players/positions have the ball). Otherwise the opposition are likely to have an easy out ball and a promising attacking situation against an opponent who has over committed forward. Liverpool and Emirates Marketing Project are able to play that way against us as their players are suited to that style of play and their coaching concentrates on this.
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Not to add the fitness levels required, a high intensity pressing game wouldnt be sustainable for a long period of time....
 
Finney Is Back said:
That is great in theory, but developing a pressing game isn't as easy as just telling a team of players to press the opposition. The press has to be performed by every member of the team and is often scenario based (i.e. will occur in certain areas of the pitch or when certain players/positions have the ball). Otherwise the opposition are likely to have an easy out ball and a promising attacking situation against an opponent who has over committed forward. Liverpool and Emirates Marketing Project are able to play that way against us as their players are suited to that style of play and their coaching concentrates on this.
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It seems there is no easy answer to the successful counter-press but the need to find an alternative strategy against teams that successfully deploy it against us is becoming ever more urgent.

It's clear we are most vulnerable to teams such as Liverpool that target us with the counter-press. Nowadays the bin-dippers deploy a pressing game almost regardless of their opponents but they always seem to up the level of intensity against us, with predictably depressing results:

Last ten games vs Liverpool (all comps)

10 Mar 2013 Away L 2-3 Premier League
15 Dec 2013 Home L 0-5 Premier League
30 Mar 2014 Away L 0-4 Premier League
31 Aug 2014 Home L 0-3 Premier League
10 Feb 2015 Away L 2-3 Premier League
17 Oct 2015 Home D 0-0 Premier League
02 Apr 2016 Away D 1-1 Premier League
27 Aug 2016 Home D 1-1 Premier League
25 Oct 2016 Away L 1-2 League Cup
11 Feb 2017 Away L 0-2 Premier League

P10 --- W0 - D3 - L7 --- GF7-GA21

That is an especially depressing record considering we have been mostly on a par or ahead of them over the past five seasons. For me the answer must be to fight fire with fire. We need to take a leaf out of their book and raise our own press to even greater levels of intensity when we next face them.
 
Watched 'yes I know just another a friendly' between Lpool and Bayern tonight 3-0 to Lpool. As much as I personally don't like it, Lpool were very good.

Bayern look very off the pace....pools pace was frightening at times....

Kind of follows on from the post above.
 
As I said post the Emirates Marketing Project game and will say again post this Liverpool game, the pattern is a familiar one with respect to last season - they (Liverpool), like Emirates Marketing Project also came out of the blocks flying, but by November had been found out. Poch learned his lesson after his first season and last year had the team peaking at the right moment. Nothing to suggest that can't happen again this season.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk
 
Spur of the moment said:
It seems there is no easy answer to the successful counter-press but the need to find an alternative strategy against teams that successfully deploy it against us is becoming ever more urgent.

It's clear we are most vulnerable to teams such as Liverpool that target us with the counter-press. Nowadays the bin-dippers deploy a pressing game almost regardless of their opponents but they always seem to up the level of intensity against us, with predictably depressing results:

Last ten games vs Liverpool (all comps)

10 Mar 2013 Away L 2-3 Premier League
15 Dec 2013 Home L 0-5 Premier League
30 Mar 2014 Away L 0-4 Premier League
31 Aug 2014 Home L 0-3 Premier League
10 Feb 2015 Away L 2-3 Premier League
17 Oct 2015 Home D 0-0 Premier League
02 Apr 2016 Away D 1-1 Premier League
27 Aug 2016 Home D 1-1 Premier League
25 Oct 2016 Away L 1-2 League Cup
11 Feb 2017 Away L 0-2 Premier League

P10 --- W0 - D3 - L7 --- GF7-GA21

That is an especially depressing record considering we have been mostly on a par or ahead of them over the past five seasons. For me the answer must be to fight fire with fire. We need to take a leaf out of their book and raise our own press to even greater levels of intensity when we next face them.
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Great post! And this been a personal subject of much irritation. We look like a championship side when we play Liverpool. Forget all the 'good second place finish' rhetoric, we must solve this weakness.
 
Spur of the moment said:
It seems there is no easy answer to the successful counter-press but the need to find an alternative strategy against teams that successfully deploy it against us is becoming ever more urgent.

It's clear we are most vulnerable to teams such as Liverpool that target us with the counter-press. Nowadays the bin-dippers deploy a pressing game almost regardless of their opponents but they always seem to up the level of intensity against us, with predictably depressing results:

Last ten games vs Liverpool (all comps)

10 Mar 2013 Away L 2-3 Premier League
15 Dec 2013 Home L 0-5 Premier League
30 Mar 2014 Away L 0-4 Premier League
31 Aug 2014 Home L 0-3 Premier League
10 Feb 2015 Away L 2-3 Premier League
17 Oct 2015 Home D 0-0 Premier League
02 Apr 2016 Away D 1-1 Premier League
27 Aug 2016 Home D 1-1 Premier League
25 Oct 2016 Away L 1-2 League Cup
11 Feb 2017 Away L 0-2 Premier League

P10 --- W0 - D3 - L7 --- GF7-GA21

That is an especially depressing record considering we have been mostly on a par or ahead of them over the past five seasons. For me the answer must be to fight fire with fire. We need to take a leaf out of their book and raise our own press to even greater levels of intensity when we next face them.
Click to expand...
Sit back and counter. Liverpool thrive on pace and teams messing around at the back. Play pure counter attack and make it ugly. Look at Chelsea at Anfield. Did what they needed, pragmatism. Liverpool destroy every team who like to dominate the ball. Look at Bayern today (yes its a friendly.)
 
StephenH said:
Watched 'yes I know just another a friendly' between Lpool and Bayern tonight 3-0 to Lpool. As much as I personally don't like it, Lpool were very good.

Bayern look very off the pace....pools pace was frightening at times....

Kind of follows on from the post above.
Click to expand...

That is city and liverpool both looking good.
 
diego_maradona said:
Sit back and counter. Liverpool thrive on pace and teams messing around at the back. Play pure counter attack and make it ugly. Look at Chelsea at Anfield. Did what they needed, pragmatism. Liverpool destroy every team who like to dominate the ball. Look at Bayern today (yes its a friendly.)
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Yes. Different gameplan is needed for different situations. You should not just approach every game situation the same, that is arrogant and foolish.
 
Spur of the moment said:
It seems there is no easy answer to the successful counter-press but the need to find an alternative strategy against teams that successfully deploy it against us is becoming ever more urgent.

It's clear we are most vulnerable to teams such as Liverpool that target us with the counter-press. Nowadays the bin-dippers deploy a pressing game almost regardless of their opponents but they always seem to up the level of intensity against us, with predictably depressing results:

Last ten games vs Liverpool (all comps)

10 Mar 2013 Away L 2-3 Premier League
15 Dec 2013 Home L 0-5 Premier League
30 Mar 2014 Away L 0-4 Premier League
31 Aug 2014 Home L 0-3 Premier League
10 Feb 2015 Away L 2-3 Premier League
17 Oct 2015 Home D 0-0 Premier League
02 Apr 2016 Away D 1-1 Premier League
27 Aug 2016 Home D 1-1 Premier League
25 Oct 2016 Away L 1-2 League Cup
11 Feb 2017 Away L 0-2 Premier League

P10 --- W0 - D3 - L7 --- GF7-GA21

That is an especially depressing record considering we have been mostly on a par or ahead of them over the past five seasons. For me the answer must be to fight fire with fire. We need to take a leaf out of their book and raise our own press to even greater levels of intensity when we next face them.
Click to expand...
I would like us to sit deep and play long against Liverpool. Leave 3 high up the pitch and have a big gap between our defense/midfield and attack Negate the fact that they like to use the pace of Mane in behind and potentially outnumber them as we get it forward early.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I would like us to sit deep and play long against Liverpool. Leave 3 high up the pitch and have a big gap between our defense/midfield and attack Negate the fact that they like to use the pace of Mane in behind and potentially outnumber them as we get it forward early.
Click to expand...

Got to do something different because the performances have quite frankly been embarrassing the last 3/4 years and results should have been worse than the terrible ones we have. Luckily it's only Pool we seem to struggle with consistently.

Ali, Kane and son up top /high with wanyama, moussa and a more withdrawn and central eriksen might work?
 
StephenH said:
Great post! And this been a personal subject of much irritation. We look like a championship side when we play Liverpool. Forget all the 'good second place finish' rhetoric, we must solve this weakness.
Click to expand...

I'd rather be the better team over a 38 game season than the better in a couple of 1 v 1s - obviously we need not improve against Liverpool but it's the bigger picture which is most important
 
billyiddo said:
I'd rather be the better team over a 38 game season than the better in a couple of 1 v 1s - obviously we need not improve against Liverpool but it's the bigger picture which is most important
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Fair point re the bigger picture but if we want to win the PL which, despite the lorry-loads others are spending remains a realistic aspiration, then we almost certainly need to extract more points from visits to Anfield, Stamford Bridge and Old Trafford, all grounds we have a horrendous record at.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I would like us to sit deep and play long against Liverpool. Leave 3 high up the pitch and have a big gap between our defense/midfield and attack Negate the fact that they like to use the pace of Mane in behind and potentially outnumber them as we get it forward early.
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We either tried or were forced into that at times against them last season. Problem was that when we played long the ball came right back at us.

Part of the high press strategy is trying to force the opponents to play it long. When the long ball comes the front players have essentially succeeded in their high press.

Particularly against teams that aren't used to playing it long it's usually a good outcome. You get forwards who aren't great at that up against defenders who do this week in week out in physical duels.

My preferred strategy will remain trying to pass through that pressure. Get Winks on the pitch.
billyiddo said:
I'd rather be the better team over a 38 game season than the better in a couple of 1 v 1s - obviously we need not improve against Liverpool but it's the bigger picture which is most important
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Yes. But our problems against teams that press us high up the pitch with quality is a concern. In a way we've been lucky that relatively few teams are capable of that in the PL. It's a definite area where we need to improve.
 
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