• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Politics, politics, politics

Those who predicted we'd ace negotiations with the EU and be their equal, are you able to hold your hands up and admit you called that wrong?

Where do folks think we should get immigrant workers from post Brexit? Bearing in mind care for the aging population and the NHS depend on some form of immigrant labour? Ironically, Poles, Portugese and other EU nationals are less attracted to the UK anyway now. Even without Brexit we'd have less immigrants now because the eastern european nations are better off (and we are poorer with value of the pound down). They also don't feel so welcome post Brexit.

Is there anything, just one good thing on the horizon, from Brexit?
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
While I dont disagree with you, I dont entirely disagree with him either. They have bullied us. And we have let them.

.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree we have been negotiated hard. That's why you go into a negotiation with a clear focus and understanding of strengths and weaknesses.
We're were not bullied, we were not ready.

But apparently we are really great and amazing.....so how did we let the "little, failing EU" bully us, GREAT Britain.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Is there anything, just one good thing on the horizon, from Brexit?
Click to expand...

How about a less populated nation? With more affordable homes. But we'd need some new initiatives to bring together the population. Peoples expectation of well paid work would have to change, and we'd be poorer. Well most of us. The elite would be able to pick off more for themselves and exploit the cheaper UK. Without some kind of socialist unity, I just don't see English people especially, content to be poorer but more collective. We're far to entitled, used to good services and having a few quid in our pockets. Why people voted to try and go backwards to the 1970s is beyond me.

Despite the polls showing quite a close result for a re-run refferendum, I think it would actually result in a solid margin for remain now. Many who poll leave may not vote now, and some who didn't vote last time would vote to remain. I can't see many who voted remain changing to leave.

There is something in me that is curious to see Brexit and the mess it throws up. With change comes oppotunity (mainly for those who wish to exploit sadly). I like the idea of the property market crashing. But for our nation, for funding for schools, hospitals, taxes we pay etc Brexit is undoubtably bad bad thing. A waste of time. If the UK could harness a national drive towards something of value, then we could achieve great things. Brexit is simply a backward step.
 
Last edited:
monkeybarry said:
I don't disagree we have been negotiated hard. That's why you go into a negotiation with a clear focus and understanding of strengths and weaknesses.
We're were not bullied, we were not ready.

But apparently we are really great and amazing.....so how did we let the "little, failing EU" bully us, GREAT Britain.
Click to expand...

I always maintained we should be able to deal with them on an equal footing. Instead we went in like wet paper towels and they saw that opportunity to take what they wanted. You might call it negotiating hard, personally I dont think bullying is wrong either.

They took advantage of a rather pathetic negotiating partner (not that its been much of a partnership).

Anyway, in all seriousness, I think The Mirror has brought forward the decider to this whole mess. If this doesnt break the deadlock I dont know what will:

Britain could run out of Mars bars within a fortnight due to Brexit chaos, food experts have warned.

Environment secretary Michael Gove has reportedly been told how two of the ingredients used to make the iconic chocolate nougat are imported and only take a few days to go off.

If these imports were to be barred from entering the UK via the port of Dover in the case of a hard Brexit, Mars Food UK would be unable to make the chocolate at its factory in Slough, Berks.

So worryingly, the favourite would vanish off British newsagent and supermarket shelves.

Chocolate fans have expressed their dismay on Twitter.

One person posted: "Now the threat of no Mars bars in the country is real they would most likely vote to Remain."
 
Don't know if the would be more support for the Canadian model.

Know the city might not like it but apparently some of the clearing business will not move to Europe anyway. I like the idea of the Canada model.

I will always believe in Brexit because of long held political beliefs. But I can not understand why this is taking up every area of politics.

Why are the government not announcing plans to get all our energy from natural resources from within the country in the next 30 years like the Spanish did last week.

Why aren't we announcing new ways of taxing students over a lifetime instead of tuition fees.

What about my favourite, vertical farming farms for all towns in the country.

What about opening up more state run services for the public to invest in.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I always maintained we should be able to deal with them on an equal footing. Instead we went in like wet paper towels and they saw that opportunity to take what they wanted. You might call it negotiating hard, personally I dont think bullying is wrong either.

They took advantage of a rather pathetic negotiating partner (not that its been much of a partnership).

Anyway, in all seriousness, I think The Mirror has bought forward the decider to this whole mess. If this doesnt break the deadlock I dont know what will:

Britain could run out of Mars bars within a fortnight due to Brexit chaos, food experts have warned.

Environment secretary Michael Gove has reportedly been told how two of the ingredients used to make the iconic chocolate nougat are imported and only take a few days to go off.

If these imports were to be barred from entering the UK via the port of Dover in the case of a hard Brexit, Mars Food UK would be unable to make the chocolate at its factory in Slough, Berks.

So worryingly, the favourite would vanish off British newsagent and supermarket shelves.

Chocolate fans have expressed their dismay on Twitter.

One person posted: "Now the threat of no Mars bars in the country is real they would most likely vote to Remain."
Click to expand...

First thing we should have done was pull out all our armed forces from mainland Europe. Send them back if you got a fair deal.

We bring a lot to the table that Europe can use if friendly, if not, bugger em.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Don't know if the would be more support for the Canadian model.

Know the city might not like it but apparently some of the clearing business will not move to Europe anyway. I like the idea of the Canada model.

I will always believe in Brexit because of long held political beliefs. But I can not understand why this is taking up every area of politics.

Why are the government not announcing plans to get all our energy from natural resources from within the country in the next 30 years like the Spanish did last week.

Why aren't we announcing new ways of taxing students over a lifetime instead of tuition fees.

What about my favourite, vertical farming farms for all towns in the country.

What about opening up more state run services for the public to invest in.
Click to expand...

That is the sad thing. In real terms we are going backwards since the vote. Government departments are sitting on their hands while we find out what happens with Brexit. Not least there are implications for laws, raising funding (for example for new farming techniques), all sorts of uncertaincy that put initiatives on the back burner. And the civil service doesn't need much of an excuse to do the minium to tick along.

In the commercial world investment into the uk has plummeted for similar reasons. How can you invest in new manufacturing for example, when you may not be able to export the goods you make?

I think whatever deal you could get from the EU would be sub-optimal. Because a club can not give non-members a better deal than members get.
 
ShipOfGoldblum said:
Well, at least that's only the nutters on the Tory right, with their WWII obsession. It's not visible on the left, and it certainly hasn't infected this site.

Oh. Er.
Click to expand...

The Treaty of Versailles was WWI. I did enjoy the Neville Chamberlain comparison that was being made last week though.

SpurMeUp said:
Those who predicted we'd ace negotiations with the EU and be their equal, are you able to hold your hands up and admit you called that wrong?

Where do folks think we should get immigrant workers from post Brexit? Bearing in mind care for the aging population and the NHS depend on some form of immigrant labour? Ironically, Poles, Portugese and other EU nationals are less attracted to the UK anyway now. Even without Brexit we'd have less immigrants now because the eastern european nations are better off (and we are poorer with value of the pound down). They also don't feel so welcome post Brexit.

Is there anything, just one good thing on the horizon, from Brexit?
Click to expand...

There was just lack of belief mixed with incompetence. It could have/could still be done properly. You can't bargain unless you have a threat. We should have played up the NAFTA thing a lot and got concessions through fear that the Ameri-sphere was going to pitch-up on their doorstep.

Economic migration is an evil of neo-liberalism (social migration is great though). A gradually declining population, like we achieved for a few years at the end of the 90s/early 00s, is the only route to sustainability.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I completely disagree. We've been embarrassingly kowtowed and pathetic. We've negotiated like a peace agreement after we've lost a war. We're ending up paying reparation and giving them the Sudetenland. When all we needed to do was say so long, and hope you enjoyed all the fish.
Click to expand...

We have been kowtowed and pathetic, yes. But you've also proved my point about sense of entitlement with your last sentence.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DTA
AuroRaman said:
We have been kowtowed and pathetic, yes. But you've also proved my point about sense of entitlement with your last sentence.
Click to expand...

For 40 years we've not been the second biggest net contributor to the EU? Funding the construction of village halls and rural roads across the continent?

I don't think there should be any entitlement over a future relationship. Just call it quits and go our separate ways. But there's nothing we should be apologising or being punished about.
 
Gutter Boy said:
For 40 years we've not been the second biggest net contributor to the EU? Funding the construction of village halls and rural roads across the continent?

I don't think there should be any entitlement over a future relationship. Just call it quits and go our separate ways. But there's nothing we should be apologising or being punished about.
Click to expand...

And for that, you believe we should have the authority to take our ball home now with little resistance or tough negotiation the other way? Because Gertrude in a quaint little village on the outskirts of the Black Forest can play Bingo every Tuesday evening? (I'm being facetious just to be clear).

I've not stated that we should be apologising for wanting to leave or be punished for it, far from it. If we're leaving, let's do it as amicably as possible and try to negotiate a fair and sensible deal. But that thinly-veiled arrogance (that was much more prevalent to the Leave campaign as ShipofJesus pointed out), with the tubthumping, Imperialistic undertone and what-have-you is now making us look rather silly.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Don't know if the would be more support for the Canadian model.

Know the city might not like it but apparently some of the clearing business will not move to Europe anyway. I like the idea of the Canada model.

I will always believe in Brexit because of long held political beliefs. But I can not understand why this is taking up every area of politics.

Why are the government not announcing plans to get all our energy from natural resources from within the country in the next 30 years like the Spanish did last week.

Why aren't we announcing new ways of taxing students over a lifetime instead of tuition fees.

What about my favourite, vertical farming farms for all towns in the country.

What about opening up more state run services for the public to invest in.
Click to expand...
What about doing something with the A27?

Kick the can down the road....
 
We've talked in this thread about the "what ifs" of a 2nd referendum. Assuming May's deal doesn't get voted through and any sort of Brexit in name only is also rejected by leavers and remainers alike, would the choice boil down to:

1. No Deal Brexit.
2. Remain.

?
 
the dza said:
We've talked in this thread about the "what ifs" of a 2nd referendum. Assuming May's deal doesn't get voted through and any sort of Brexit in name only is also rejected by leavers and remainers alike, would the choice boil down to:

1. No Deal Brexit.
2. Remain.

?
Click to expand...

Basically.

And we know they havent the fortitude (or competence) to take on a Hard Brexit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back