SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Can you summerise in 3 sentences!?
-
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Politics, politics, politics
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
Can you summerise in 3 sentences!?
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
This is a bespoke deal, with the potential for a bespoke trade agreement. What are you on about?
monkeybarry
Jack Jull
Sounds to me like the Tory party have an issue with the Tory Govt not sticking to a manifesto promise
........
monkeybarry
Jack Jull
Which bits are truth?
I don't think this is even about party politics. This is all personal politics.
I seriously doubt most of those resigning today care about 5-10 years of Corbyn if they get to be leader of the opposition and then, eventually PM. For those of us who need jobs to pay mortgages, etc. it will be disastrous.
Without agreeing with second part do agree with the first.
Parklaner81
Steve Hodge
Resigning...?
Parklaner81
Steve Hodge
...maybe not!
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
EU leaders dismiss renegotiation talk
On the other side of the Channel, EU leaders are dismissing talk of reopening the Brexit negotiations.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel said there was "no chance" of restarting discussions while French PM Édouard Philippe said there was a need to prepare for a no-deal because of UK "uncertainty".
On the other side of the Channel, EU leaders are dismissing talk of reopening the Brexit negotiations.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel said there was "no chance" of restarting discussions while French PM Édouard Philippe said there was a need to prepare for a no-deal because of UK "uncertainty".
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
very good
I love this from John Crace, I'll just post a bit of it here:
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...anged-as-the-maybot-gets-stuck-in-denial-mode
Call it Westminster’s natural predisposition to entropy. The breakdown from a natural state of disorder into outright chaos. Shortly after eight in the morning came the first resignation. Someone who no one had ever heard of quitting a job no one knew he had. An hour later Dominic Raab resigned as Brexit secretary in protest at the Brexit secretary’s inability to negotiate a deal. The cabinet’s loss was geography’s gain.
Après Dom, le déluge. Next to go was Esther McVey, hellbent on proving that an unemployed single woman could get by on universal credit. Then Suella Braverman, one of the dimmest of the dim. For the first time all morning, a wan smile passed across the prime minister’s lips. Maybe there was some light at the end of the tunnel. Though not for long, as further MPs, unknown even to their own families, began to make their excuses for leaving largely imaginary jobs.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...anged-as-the-maybot-gets-stuck-in-denial-mode
Call it Westminster’s natural predisposition to entropy. The breakdown from a natural state of disorder into outright chaos. Shortly after eight in the morning came the first resignation. Someone who no one had ever heard of quitting a job no one knew he had. An hour later Dominic Raab resigned as Brexit secretary in protest at the Brexit secretary’s inability to negotiate a deal. The cabinet’s loss was geography’s gain.
Après Dom, le déluge. Next to go was Esther McVey, hellbent on proving that an unemployed single woman could get by on universal credit. Then Suella Braverman, one of the dimmest of the dim. For the first time all morning, a wan smile passed across the prime minister’s lips. Maybe there was some light at the end of the tunnel. Though not for long, as further MPs, unknown even to their own families, began to make their excuses for leaving largely imaginary jobs.
StephenH
David Ginola
Love it!
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Next month. The 10th has been suggested.
All the moralising resignation letters today made me laugh. Remember these are the people in power who have been in on the deal, part of the government. They went away for a cosy weekend at Chequers where most of the deal details were outlined.
These cabinet resignations are either purely opportunistic - make a name for myself - or treachery against May.
----
There are 2 points that are not being made clearly or fervantly enough: 1. no one can acurately outline what people voted for when voting Leave. The aray of leave promises, the very different types of exit, the false proclimations, mean politicians can not infer 'a will of the people' onto us to suit their own agenda. How do you deal with that?
Well 2. a majority of our democratic nation believe a 2nd referendum is required. Things have also changed significantly from the last refferendum. Politicians and parliment are deadlocked. What other reasonable choice is there? But will parliment let us decide? That is the problem. Currently the nation is being held against its democratic will (with polls showing significant majorities for a new vote) to a compromised deal and political infighting. The sooner MPs are brave enought to let the people decide the better.
When is the next march?
Last edited:
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
Leave voters probably voted for these,
https://www.voteleavewatch.org.uk/leave_campaigners_try_to_drop_their_false_promises
https://www.voteleavewatch.org.uk/leave_campaigners_try_to_drop_their_false_promises
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Theresa May is continuing to promote her Brexit withdrawal deal, as cabinet minister Michael Gove is understood to be considering quitting over it.
BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg said she understood Mr Gove had rejected the PM's offer to make him Brexit secretary, because Mrs May would not let him renegotiate the deal.
Dominic Raab quit the role on Thursday over "fatal flaws" in the agreement.
Mrs May told LBC she believed this was "truly the best deal for Britain".
But she is facing opposition across the political spectrum, with one of her own backbenchers, Mark Francois, warning that it was "dead on arrival" and would never get the backing of MPs.
The government unveiled its long-awaited draft withdrawal agreement on Wednesday, which sets out the terms of the UK's departure from the EU, over 585 pages.
Answering callers' questions about the plan on LBC radio, she said her job was to persuade MPs from all parties that the agreement was in their constituents' interests.
Asked whether she still had the support of the Democratic Unionists, on whom she relies upon for her Commons majority, she said she was "still working with" Arlene Foster's party.
Amid question marks about his future on Thursday, Mrs May said Mr Gove was doing "an excellent job" as environment secretary, adding: "I haven't appointed a new Dexeu [Department for Exiting the European Union] secretary yet and I will be making appointments to the government in due course."
But the BBC understands Mr Gove, a leading Leave figure during the EU referendum, rejected her offer to make him Brexit secretary, saying he would only accept it if he could try to make changes to the negotiated deal - something Mrs May and EU leaders have made clear is not possible.
Mr Gove is said to have been key to getting backing for Mrs May's deal at a lengthy cabinet meeting on Wednesday - during which a number of ministers expressed doubts.
Former Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab and Work and Pensions Secretary Esther McVey both went on to quit over the agreement.
The draft agreement has also upset some Tory backbenchers, including leading Brexiteer Jacob Rees-Mogg, who said he and others had submitted letters of no confidence in Mrs May to the chairman of the Conservatives' backbench 1922 Committee.
Forty eight letters are needed to trigger a confidence vote.
Former Culture Secretary John Whittingdale has become the latest Tory MP to submit a letter.
It is also understood that a group of cabinet ministers are also considering whether to try to force Mrs May to make some changes to the withdrawal deal.
Former Brexit Secretary David Davis said there was still time to improve the text.
"The European Union has spun this out deliberately to try to use time against us," he told BBC Radio 4's Today. "But European negotiations are never over until they're concluded."
'Right for our country'
The provisional agreement sets out commitments over citizens' rights after Brexit, the proposed 21-month transition period, the £39bn "divorce bill" and, most controversially, the "backstop" to avoid a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
It still needs to get the stamp of approval from MPs in Parliament, and finally from the 27 other EU member states.
Mrs May issued a defiant message in Downing Street on Thursday, saying: "I believe with every fibre of my being that the course I have set out is the right one for our country and all our people."
She added: "Leadership is about taking the right decisions, not the easy ones."
She acknowledged some were not happy with the compromises made to secure the deal, but said it "delivers what people voted for and it is in the national interest". She also vowed to "see this through".
But Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn told her: "The government simply cannot put to Parliament this half-baked deal that both the Brexit secretary and his predecessor have rejected."
And Liberal Democrat leader Sir Vince Cable suggested the PM was "in denial", adding she had "rightly conceded that 'no Brexit' is the real alternative".
Elsewhere, some of Mrs May's own backbenchers warned the deal would not command support in the House of Commons, when it is put to a vote in early December.
Tory MP Mark Francois said that with Labour, the SNP, the Lib Dems and Northern Ireland's DUP planning to vote against it - alongside, he said, more than 80 Tory MPs - it was "mathematically impossible to get this deal through the House of Commons" and it was "dead on arrival".
However during a press conference in Downing Street, Mrs May said abandoning the withdrawal deal would be "to take a path of deep and grave uncertainty when the British people just want us to get on with it".
BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg said she understood Mr Gove had rejected the PM's offer to make him Brexit secretary, because Mrs May would not let him renegotiate the deal.
Dominic Raab quit the role on Thursday over "fatal flaws" in the agreement.
Mrs May told LBC she believed this was "truly the best deal for Britain".
But she is facing opposition across the political spectrum, with one of her own backbenchers, Mark Francois, warning that it was "dead on arrival" and would never get the backing of MPs.
The government unveiled its long-awaited draft withdrawal agreement on Wednesday, which sets out the terms of the UK's departure from the EU, over 585 pages.
Answering callers' questions about the plan on LBC radio, she said her job was to persuade MPs from all parties that the agreement was in their constituents' interests.
Asked whether she still had the support of the Democratic Unionists, on whom she relies upon for her Commons majority, she said she was "still working with" Arlene Foster's party.
Amid question marks about his future on Thursday, Mrs May said Mr Gove was doing "an excellent job" as environment secretary, adding: "I haven't appointed a new Dexeu [Department for Exiting the European Union] secretary yet and I will be making appointments to the government in due course."
But the BBC understands Mr Gove, a leading Leave figure during the EU referendum, rejected her offer to make him Brexit secretary, saying he would only accept it if he could try to make changes to the negotiated deal - something Mrs May and EU leaders have made clear is not possible.
Mr Gove is said to have been key to getting backing for Mrs May's deal at a lengthy cabinet meeting on Wednesday - during which a number of ministers expressed doubts.
Former Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab and Work and Pensions Secretary Esther McVey both went on to quit over the agreement.
The draft agreement has also upset some Tory backbenchers, including leading Brexiteer Jacob Rees-Mogg, who said he and others had submitted letters of no confidence in Mrs May to the chairman of the Conservatives' backbench 1922 Committee.
Forty eight letters are needed to trigger a confidence vote.
Former Culture Secretary John Whittingdale has become the latest Tory MP to submit a letter.
It is also understood that a group of cabinet ministers are also considering whether to try to force Mrs May to make some changes to the withdrawal deal.
Former Brexit Secretary David Davis said there was still time to improve the text.
"The European Union has spun this out deliberately to try to use time against us," he told BBC Radio 4's Today. "But European negotiations are never over until they're concluded."
'Right for our country'
The provisional agreement sets out commitments over citizens' rights after Brexit, the proposed 21-month transition period, the £39bn "divorce bill" and, most controversially, the "backstop" to avoid a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
It still needs to get the stamp of approval from MPs in Parliament, and finally from the 27 other EU member states.
Mrs May issued a defiant message in Downing Street on Thursday, saying: "I believe with every fibre of my being that the course I have set out is the right one for our country and all our people."
She added: "Leadership is about taking the right decisions, not the easy ones."
She acknowledged some were not happy with the compromises made to secure the deal, but said it "delivers what people voted for and it is in the national interest". She also vowed to "see this through".
But Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn told her: "The government simply cannot put to Parliament this half-baked deal that both the Brexit secretary and his predecessor have rejected."
And Liberal Democrat leader Sir Vince Cable suggested the PM was "in denial", adding she had "rightly conceded that 'no Brexit' is the real alternative".
Elsewhere, some of Mrs May's own backbenchers warned the deal would not command support in the House of Commons, when it is put to a vote in early December.
Tory MP Mark Francois said that with Labour, the SNP, the Lib Dems and Northern Ireland's DUP planning to vote against it - alongside, he said, more than 80 Tory MPs - it was "mathematically impossible to get this deal through the House of Commons" and it was "dead on arrival".
However during a press conference in Downing Street, Mrs May said abandoning the withdrawal deal would be "to take a path of deep and grave uncertainty when the British people just want us to get on with it".
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Brexit: Theresa May at the mercy of events
Laura Kuenssberg
Political editor
She fights on.
More than two years since the vote to leave the European Union we do know the kind of relationship that the country could build with the rest of the continent after Brexit.
We do know the prime minister has every intention of staying on to push it through.
But we don't know whether it's politically possible, whether it could get through Parliament.
We don't know who the person in charge of the process will be - the Brexit secretary.
And, most glaringly, we actually don't know if the prime minister will still be in place to try to push her deal through.
The government, for today at least, is at the mercy of events not in control.
Her vow to stay on tonight does not make her deep, deep problems disappear.
With her party in revolt, her colleagues departing - some determined to usher her out of office - we can't, and don't know yet, if Brexit can happen as planned, perhaps, if at all.
This could be a gale that's weathered in a few days, or a serious storm that sweeps the government away.
But while the prime minister's future is so uncertain, so is all of ours.
Laura Kuenssberg
Political editor
She fights on.
More than two years since the vote to leave the European Union we do know the kind of relationship that the country could build with the rest of the continent after Brexit.
We do know the prime minister has every intention of staying on to push it through.
But we don't know whether it's politically possible, whether it could get through Parliament.
We don't know who the person in charge of the process will be - the Brexit secretary.
And, most glaringly, we actually don't know if the prime minister will still be in place to try to push her deal through.
The government, for today at least, is at the mercy of events not in control.
Her vow to stay on tonight does not make her deep, deep problems disappear.
With her party in revolt, her colleagues departing - some determined to usher her out of office - we can't, and don't know yet, if Brexit can happen as planned, perhaps, if at all.
This could be a gale that's weathered in a few days, or a serious storm that sweeps the government away.
But while the prime minister's future is so uncertain, so is all of ours.