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Politics, politics, politics

DTA said:
No dude... We want to vote if we leave the EU when we know what we are voting for (or at least aiming for)
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That was the 2016 vote. Follow the EU's path or follow a different one. Now that's being implemented. The 2022 vote will be on which different path
 
DTA said:
Dude I'm not being dishonest. I'm against Brexit because I truly believe that it will be bad for the country. And there is quite a lot of evidence that points to that viewpoint being correct.

However if I thought it would be good for the country and there was evidence to back that thought up. I would be a committed Brexiter.

Even if we were committed to gutterboys vision of Brexit, then I would say... You know what the risk are large but we have a vision that is revolutionary and it's worth taking that risk for the chance of that utopian future.

But I will say this

If we end up leaving I would love it to be success for all of the country, I would be happier than you are when covered in custard. I just can't see it though.
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It is not possible to be happy then me covered in custard.
 
Gutter Boy said:
That was the 2016 vote. Follow the EU's path or follow a different one. Now that's being implemented. The 2022 vote will be on which different path
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That's the thing though the 2016 was a clusterfudge no one voting for Brexit knew what they were specifically voting for... it was just a catch all 'Brexit' vote and is therefore flawed.

Set out a vision... And have people vote for that.
 
DTA said:
That's the thing though the 2016 was a clusterfudge no one voting for Brexit knew what they were specifically voting for... it was just a catch all 'Brexit' vote and is therefore flawed.

Set out a vision... And have people vote for that.
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Everyone knew what they we voting for. A future determined by elected representatives in Westminster, rather than bankers in Frankfurt and bureaucrats in Brussels. Re-enfranchisement. That's the fundamental of Brexit.

Concerns about immigration or the over-mighty interests of big business etc. are just symptoms of that.

The vision is simply - we will retrieve the power to decide our future again
 
what you are saying is just not true, this is what you took from it.

In Essex I cam into contact with loads saying it was to get rid of immigrants. In London I was told that they wanted a loser relationship like the Norwegian model which was championed by the main driver of the referendum https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-norwegian-style-deal-for-britain-post-brexit .

There was no clear vision of what was being voted for and to say there was is clearly false. You seem like a well read fellow who actually seeks information and understanding before making a decision. Most voters are not like you and take what the SUN / Mail says as true, and they were providing all solutions to all people
 
Equally most remainers voted that way because it's what the Guardian told them to do (who by rights had to oppose the view of the rest of the written press).

Very few leavers bothered to find out about and understand the ideology and direction of the EU, let alone would identify with it if they understood

Concentration of power away from elected officials, technocracy, disenfranchisement, the interests of finance/big business over those of the state and individuals. These authoritarian pillars are not things most liberals would vote for if they actually thought about it for a minute.
 
r-u-s-x said:
OK, so you agree that they didn't really know what they were voting for?

*edit - the remainers knew exactly what they were voting for as it was the status quo.
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In as much as most of the time no one knows what they are voting for. There can be no facts regarding the future, only predictions. Leavers voted that way because they believed that change would make the future better, or at least no worse than the other destiny that was coming to pass.

I don't think remain was actually a status quo. The EU is on a centralising/political integration/superstate direction of travel. And the EU is actually the 40 year departure from 1000 years of self-determination. So in a lot of ways we are reverting back to business as usual.
 
DTA said:
Pretty much this, although the remainers at least knew what the status quo looked like. No one including David Davis, fox, Boris, Grove have any idea what Brexit will look like.
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While only Blair and Clegg dare hint at the truth of what the USoE will look like
 
I see that another minister has quit DExEU

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