Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Grays_1890]

Having watched a loved one suffer through months of a terminal illness, struggling to breathe and in constant pain, I’m afraid I’m not happy to accept that definition of the bill you reference.

Yep I am a massive advocate for it, for that reason.

Is happening in places as is with people being given full grace of the morphine button in hospice, lets just make it so people have the choice before that and avoid the pain and suffering

 

[Grays_1890]

That tweet is a slight misrepresentation. It is not decriminalising all abortions, only those induced by the woman herself. There have been instances where women have unknowingly exceeded the 24 week limit when taking pills that induce abortion and have faced criminal charges.
That is what is being changed, and to me that's a good thing.
It does not sanction abortions up to full term when carried out by a clinic/hospital/medical practitioner.
In reality it is unlikely to have a huge impact in terms of number of abortions.

Cheers for posting that, Devil in detail as always

 

[djp82]

Anything much over the 24 weeks and you are going to effectively have a still birth so the woman will likely end up in hospital. It's not really a solution for hiding an affair. I don't know if anything like that has actually happened but if it has I'd confidently wager it's an extreme exception.

It has happened. Hence I wonder how that would be seen. In that case the female was given a custodial sentence. Under new legislation way I read it that would not be the case.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

It has happened. Hence I wonder how that would be seen. In that case the female was given a custodial sentence. Under new legislation way I read it that would not be the case.

That’s my understanding as well.
Obviously that’s not the type of scenario this change is intended for but I’d still say that’s a very rare occurrence and as is sometimes the case the undeserving will benefit from legislation that protects those who do need it.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I don’t normally post in here but I’m shocked that they have voted in a bill to allow abortion up to full term.
I’m not against abortion and 24 weeks is one of the later limits in the world prior to today. Allowing up to full term crosses some moral boundary’s in my view. You gov polled at 1% of people polled agreed with it.

On top of that the assisted suicide bill looks like a brick show from the stuff I’m seeing and reading.

Tories were bad but this Labour mob are a brick show of the highest order. Anti human.

There’s not one party i would give a vote to. The politicians in this country are a joke. Full of clueless student activists , anti human loonies , elite snobs. Very few decent ones.

I’m pro abortion but agree there should be a cut off point.

I’m also for assisted dying having a mum who suffers from dementia. Me and my sister just agreed to remove the DNR from her care. I wasn’t ready to let go until recently but I don’t want them to resuscitate her and bring her back if she’s not going to be the same person she was before.

 

[djp82]

I’m pro abortion but agree there should be a cut off point.

I’m also for assisted dying having a mum who suffers from dementia. Me and my sister just agreed to remove the DNR from her care. I wasn’t ready to let go until recently but I don’t want them to resuscitate her and bring her back if she’s not going to be the same person she was before.

I’m really sorry to hear that.

It’s a complex issue that in principal I agree with but as I said I do worry about the way in which it’s implemented. There has to be built in fail safes. Also it’s about who will police those fail safes. There’s other secondary issues surrounding it. In my view. Coercion is a big one.

People will see it in various ways based on their own experiences with death of loved ones and their own experiences of terminal illness.

 

[LutonSpurs]

I’m pro abortion but agree there should be a cut off point.

I’m also for assisted dying having a mum who suffers from dementia. Me and my sister just agreed to remove the DNR from her care. I wasn’t ready to let go until recently but I don’t want them to resuscitate her and bring her back if she’s not going to be the same person she was before.

So sorry mate. Sending my best.

I think personal anecdotes like yourd are so powerful that they swayed me be pro assisted dying in a broad sense.

 

[P.D.]

Our foreign policy is so weak, war is kicking off and all we do is release a few statements about de-escalating. I'd like to see the government give a concrete view on their stance and some potential solutions/plans. Feels pretty obvious that the US will get involved soon enough and we'll likely follow the US.

 

[LutonSpurs]

The US seem to be entirely led by Israel as it stands. We'd be insane to join in to a war which doesn't concern us.

If we wanted to go after a country with a crazy amount of Nukes with no checks at all then you'd think Israel would be top of that list. But it's not about nukes is it.

I don't have any time for this Iranian regime but boy trying to say one of these 2 is the good guy is insane.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I definitely swing the Persian side of this situation. Both are evil dictatorships, but at least Iran just oppresses their own people, rather than try and cleanse all their neighbours.

 

[johnola]

I’m pro abortion but agree there should be a cut off point.

I’m also for assisted dying having a mum who suffers from dementia. Me and my sister just agreed to remove the DNR from her care. I wasn’t ready to let go until recently but I don’t want them to resuscitate her and bring her back if she’s not going to be the same person she was before.

My heart goes out to you. I have been through the process of my father’s Alzheimer’s diagnosis through to his Alzheimer’s led death.

The health service is no more set up to deal with this than are we - not really.

I would have great trouble explaining to anybody how much difference one clinician made, the one clinician who really listened to us, out of the dozens we spoke to in the last year or so.

After she had laid out the strategy for his end of life care, the chaos stopped, and he finally died peacefully a few weeks later after being looked after by some dedicated ladies, in a nursing home.

To my mind we should all come with instructions at birth and doubly so at the end.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

I definitely swing the Persian side of this situation. Both are evil dictatorships, but at least Iran just oppresses their own people, rather than try and cleanse all their neighbours.

Think you've got to be careful here. Forget what you think of Israel v Palestine:
1) Iran developing a nuclear warhead would be a grave threat to this country and everyone in it. Similar to North Korea.
2) Not only are Iran ruled by essentially a hard-line Islamic dictatorship almost sworn to combat western society and interests, but corruption is assessed to be rife in Iran and they actively work with, fund and supply a variety of paramilitary and terrorist groups. So Iranian development of nuclear weapons would not only represent a direct threat to the UK but also a significant indirect threat in terms of warheads or "dirty bombs" falling into the wrong hands (intentionally or unintentionally)
3) Israel is a friendly state and does not represent a threat to the UK or British citizens on the whole. I think this contrasts significantly with Iran and is something people need to focus on, regardless of what you think of Israel's actions in Gaza and West Bank etc.
4) Israeli intelligence is pretty much second to none in the middle east. If the Israelis think Iran is on the verge of doing something bad, they're most likely right. We are talking about a country that successfully swapped all the phone batteries used by top ranking members of Hezbollah with explosive devices without being compromised. Thats the level of intelligence operations we are dealing with here.....

 

[Mikey10]

I’m pro abortion but agree there should be a cut off point.

I’m also for assisted dying having a mum who suffers from dementia. Me and my sister just agreed to remove the DNR from her care. I wasn’t ready to let go until recently but I don’t want them to resuscitate her and bring her back if she’s not going to be the same person she was before.

I feel your pain. I hope you and your family are okay.

I definitely swing the Persian side of this situation. Both are evil dictatorships, but at least Iran just oppresses their own people, rather than try and cleanse all their neighbours.

Erm…what about their funding of, and supplying weapons to, Hezbollah and Hamas with the intention of attacking Israel? Intelligence at the time of the 7th October suggested that Iran were behind the planning for the attacks which started the ongoing crisis in the Middle East.

 

[Lost Mango]

Think you've got to be careful here. Forget what you think of Israel v Palestine:
1) Iran developing a nuclear warhead would be a grave threat to this country and everyone in it. Similar to North Korea.
2) Not only are Iran ruled by essentially a hard-line Islamic dictatorship almost sworn to combat western society and interests, but corruption is assessed to be rife in Iran and they actively work with, fund and supply a variety of paramilitary and terrorist groups. So Iranian development of nuclear weapons would not only represent a direct threat to the UK but also a significant indirect threat in terms of warheads or "dirty bombs" falling into the wrong hands (intentionally or unintentionally)
3) Israel is a friendly state and does not represent a threat to the UK or British citizens on the whole. I think this contrasts significantly with Iran and is something people need to focus on, regardless of what you think of Israel's actions in Gaza and West Bank etc.
4) Israeli intelligence is pretty much second to none in the middle east. If the Israelis think Iran is on the verge of doing something bad, they're most likely right. We are talking about a country that successfully swapped all the phone batteries used by top ranking members of Hezbollah with explosive devices without being compromised. Thats the level of intelligence operations we are dealing with here.....

Don't, on the whole, disagree with what you are saying but .......

How did the 'second to none' intelligence service miss all the signs for Oct 7th? or was that a known event that was allowed (perhaps even encouraged) as it served a political purpose? They can't be amazing and that brick can they?

Also, Iran has been 'weeks away' from a Nuclear weapon since at least 1992 (Netanyahu's own words back then) ... that is 1,600 weeks away ago. But THIS time it is the real one???? Really? How convenient.
Fiji and Dijibouti are also weeks away from nuclear capability in the literal sense of the phrase - everything in the future is 'weeks away'. Why isn't anyone attacking them?

 

[Lost Mango]

Erm…what about their funding of, and supplying weapons to, Hezbollah and Hamas with the intention of attacking Israel? Intelligence at the time of the 7th October suggested that Iran were behind the planning for the attacks which started the ongoing crisis in the Middle East.

Started the ongoing crisis?????? When did the previous crisis stop?

(Also Netanyahu has admitted to allowing the funding of Hamas to proceed so that there was a counter in Gaza to the PA in the West bank as a means to end a Two State conversation. Iran isn't the only one with blood on their hands over Hamas).

 

[Mikey10]

Started the ongoing crisis?????? When did the previous crisis stop?

(Also Netanyahu has admitted to allowing the funding of Hamas to proceed so that there was a counter in Gaza to the PA in the West bank as a means to end a Two State conversation. Iran isn't the only one with blood on their hands over Hamas).

The crisis as it currently stands was hugely escalated by the 7th October attacks. We now stand potentially on the brink of a war involving major players from across the world.

No one involved comes out of it all well - but to state that Iran quietly oppresses its own people while playing no part in attempting to derail/destroy Israel (as the original post stated) is to ignore reality.

 

[Lilbaz]

The crisis as it currently stands was hugely escalated by the 7th October attacks. We now stand potentially on the brink of a war involving major players from across the world.

No one involved comes out of it all well - but to state that Iran quietly oppresses its own people while playing no part in attempting to derail/destroy Israel (as the original post stated) is to ignore reality.

The conflict has been going on for a thousand years. Us westerners reading newspapers and watching youtube vids can't understand it. Look at what happened to the march to gaza protest. All the westerners started in egypt thinking they were great white saviours and would treated like heroes. Nope.

You can watch other more right vids where egyptian civilians are attacking them. Almost causing a riot.

 

[Rorschach]

Don't forget to fill your cars up with petrol, if you still driving one of those old jalopies.

 

[Lost Mango]

The crisis as it currently stands was hugely escalated by the 7th October attacks. We now stand potentially on the brink of a war involving major players from across the world.

No one involved comes out of it all well - but to state that Iran quietly oppresses its own people while playing no part in attempting to derail/destroy Israel (as the original post stated) is to ignore reality.

7th October escalated it from an Israel point of view - the Palestinain situation was dire for decades before with apartheid style laws, starvation level aid provision, no due process on detention or just being shot, illegal settlements all controlled by the Israelis. The crisis has been going on for almost a century and to try to limit it to the last 2 years is to ignore reality.

Not underplaying Iran's regime or their involvement in other Middle east countries. But Israel has been undermining regimes (Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Yemen, Iran) for decades as well through murderous interventions. Just becaause they are friendlier to the West they get away with a lot in a very dubious notion of 'self-defense'.

 

[Jurgen the German]

So sorry mate. Sending my best.

I think personal anecdotes like yourd are so powerful that they swayed me be pro assisted dying in a broad sense.

Thanks mate. I can see both sides of it but in the end I believe if the person is in pain or doesn’t have a chance of leading a somewhat decent life then it shouldn’t be for the state to tell mr or my family what we can or can’t do. Completely get the proper controls have to be applied, that’s why I’m against the death penalty because there have been cases where people have been executed only to be found innocent years later.