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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

monkeybarry said:
Oh, I think we are actually very close to agreement here!
Allow the experts to deliver public services within political interference - you should become a civil servant! Because we are expert at delivering public service; at ensuring the service is there for the needs of the people and taking a holistic view.
Irrespective of views on capitalism and market forces, private company cannot prioritise a holistic view ahead of profit - they exist for profit. Nothing wrong with that, except where it's an important national infrastructure service being delivered and operating in a competitive market.
There should be no important services to which cost is the barrier - as a society we should create a decent baseline and also allow private industry to offer better services for those that choose to pay. Similar to how we do with dentistry - although that should be free at point of use for NHS patients imho. Personally I choose to pay three times the price for dentistry, and really like the results. But someone that would prefer to spend that money elsewhere and only receive check ups and essential works should be able to access it.
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There's no need for any of those services to be directly publicly funded to work.

Germany doesn't fund its healthcare system the way we do and it's far superior. My experience in the US is that their hospitals are significantly better too (although aligning their system towards Germany's would make it more universal).

Private dentistry is the correct option. But you shouldn't have to pay the tax for the public dentistry you're not using if you opt out. Same for schooling and healthcare.
 
scaramanga said:
There's no need for any of those services to be directly publicly funded to work.

Germany doesn't fund its healthcare system the way we do and it's far superior. My experience in the US is that their hospitals are significantly better too (although aligning their system towards Germany's would make it more universal).

Private dentistry is the correct option. But you shouldn't have to pay the tax for the public dentistry you're not using if you opt out. Same for schooling and healthcare.
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I wonder if your experience in the US involves those who would become homeless if they were to enlist the services of an ambulance, or take a week off work for having the audacity to be ill. But no doubt it's their fault as they're poor / vulnerable and the system itself is brilliant....
 
scaramanga said:
There's no need for any of those services to be directly publicly funded to work.

Germany doesn't fund its healthcare system the way we do and it's far superior. My experience in the US is that their hospitals are significantly better too (although aligning their system towards Germany's would make it more universal).

Private dentistry is the correct option. But you shouldn't have to pay the tax for the public dentistry you're not using if you opt out. Same for schooling and healthcare.
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If you don't believe in a society, this is probably the case.

If you believe in a society which shows civilization, then you're wrong IMO.
 
Baleforce said:
I don't think its right either.

But its like TV football coverage isn't it, people want to see the big clubs.

If you think that's bad, you should see who qualifies for the university boat race each season.
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There's 160 universities in the country. And 28 places each series. There are 24 Russell Group universities, so it's not like you're going to end up with Sparsholt Agricultural College on there.

Manchester Uni vs Birmingham Uni is surely much bigger than St Jesus of the Reformation College Oxford vs Lord Atwell the Lion Tamer College Cambridge?
 
Gutter Boy said:
There's 160 universities in the country. And 28 places each series. There are 24 Russell Group universities, so it's not like you're going to end up with Sparsholt Agricultural College on there.

Manchester Uni vs Birmingham Uni is surely much bigger than St Jesus of the Reformation College Oxford vs Lord Atwell the Lion Tamer College Cambridge?
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It might be, but I’ve heard of Oxford and Cambridge. People who watch TV want familiarity, that’s why celebs exist.
 
spurspinter1 said:

I wonder if your experience in the US involves those who would become homeless if they were to enlist the services of an ambulance, or take a week off work for having the audacity to be ill. But no doubt it's their fault as they're poor / vulnerable and the system itself is brilliant....
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I had insurance, needed a hospital (at least, the wife did) and it was in an entirely different league to anything in the UK - far better than most private provision here too.

If you publicly fund the insurance for those who cannot, what's not to like?

I used to think Stewart Lee was funny when I was a teenager too.
 
thfcsteff said:
If you don't believe in a society, this is probably the case.

If you believe in a society which shows civilization, then you're wrong IMO.
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When my kids go to an independent school, they will be saving the govt over £8K per year in schooling costs. That's money that can be spent on the education of other kids that I'm effectively gifting the govt. Why should I then pay the tax I would have been paying if my kids went to the local zoo for an education?
 
scaramanga said:
I had insurance, needed a hospital (at least, the wife did) and it was in an entirely different league to anything in the UK - far better than most private provision here too.

If you publicly fund the insurance for those who cannot, what's not to like?

I used to think Stewart Lee was funny when I was a teenager too.
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You have lots of money so had access to good health care, that was kind of my point so well done for confirming it! Not everyone is a criminal mastermind with islands in the Pacific and a golden gun etc etc

Isn't the NHS essentially a publicly funded insurance for people who can't go private? You've suggested something that should exist over there that doesn't, whilst criticizing the very same thing that is actually present here but has been run in the ground by the current villains for however long. Unless I've misunderstood, which I've no doubt you'll explain if I have!

And oh that's a real witty cutting comment re Stewart Lee, guess it must hurt how that clip calls you out as what you represent, which deserves satire even if it flies over your head. Any good tory comedians that tickle your fancy now you've outgrown Lee? Liz Truss did some fine prop work with a cabbage, just a shame it was at the country's expense.
 
spurspinter1 said:
You have lots of money so had access to good health care, that was kind of my point so well done for confirming it! Not everyone is a criminal mastermind with islands in the Pacific and a golden gun etc etc

Isn't the NHS essentially a publicly funded insurance for people who can't go private? You've suggested something that should exist over there that doesn't, whilst criticizing the very same thing that is actually present here but has been run in the ground by the current villains for however long. Unless I've misunderstood, which I've no doubt you'll explain if I have!

And oh that's a real witty cutting comment re Stewart Lee, guess it must hurt how that clip calls you out as what you represent, which deserves satire even if it flies over your head. Any good tory comedians that tickle your fancy now you've outgrown Lee? Liz Truss did some fine prop work with a cabbage, just a shame it was at the country's expense.
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It's been a couple of years since I've been able to bring myself to watch anything by Lee - a fully grown adult with his political opinions is just too cringey to watch.

The NHS is not a publicly funded insurance system, it's publicly funded and provided healthcare - the worst of both worlds. A far better system is one where the healthcare is provided privately, and those who cannot afford the insurance have it paid by the rest of us. That way we ensure everyone has access to healthcare whilst taking advantage of all the benefits of a private system.

Edit:

And I don't have a lot of money - far from it. I have enough to be targeted by No 11 whilst still having little enough that doing so makes a significant difference to me and my family.
 
scaramanga said:
There's no need for any of those services to be directly publicly funded to work.

Germany doesn't fund its healthcare system the way we do and it's far superior. My experience in the US is that their hospitals are significantly better too (although aligning their system towards Germany's would make it more universal).

Private dentistry is the correct option. But you shouldn't have to pay the tax for the public dentistry you're not using if you opt out. Same for schooling and healthcare.
Click to expand...

I guess you don't want to pay for the roads you don't drive on either, or the bridges you don't cross or the airports you don't use.
 
scaramanga said:
When my kids go to an independent school, they will be saving the govt over £8K per year in schooling costs. That's money that can be spent on the education of other kids that I'm effectively gifting the govt. Why should I then pay the tax I would have been paying if my kids went to the local zoo for an education?
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You don't get to pick and choose mate. If you send your kid to a Tory incubator, that is your choice and no, you don't get a refund!
 
I see the continuity candidate has won the totally free-and-fair above board SNP leadership election.
Hard to see the SNP building from their current position now.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
I guess you don't want to pay for the roads you don't drive on either, or the bridges you don't cross or the airports you don't use.
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Some measures have to be publicly funded as they can't be split - roads, defence, street lights, etc.

Schools and healthcare (outside of emergencies) can easily have a line drawn where they are or are not used.
 
scaramanga said:
When my kids go to an independent school, they will be saving the govt over £8K per year in schooling costs. That's money that can be spent on the education of other kids that I'm effectively gifting the govt. Why should I then pay the tax I would have been paying if my kids went to the local zoo for an education?
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Er because then the government won't have that £8k to spend on other kids in a less privileged position than yourself.

Are you publicly calling for such a concession beyond the great public forum of GG?.
Perhaps you can have a word in dear old Gillian's shell next time she's hosting her local ask your MP session (I doubt she actually does this tbh).
She's always good for making the right decisions :rolleyes:
 
scaramanga said:
It's been a couple of years since I've been able to bring myself to watch anything by Lee - a fully grown adult with his political opinions is just too cringey to watch.

The NHS is not a publicly funded insurance system, it's publicly funded and provided healthcare - the worst of both worlds. A far better system is one where the healthcare is provided privately, and those who cannot afford the insurance have it paid by the rest of us. That way we ensure everyone has access to healthcare whilst taking advantage of all the benefits of a private system.

Edit:

And I don't have a lot of money - far from it. I have enough to be targeted by No 11 whilst still having little enough that doing so makes a significant difference to me and my family.
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So you think differently about health and education?
 
scaramanga said:
Some measures have to be publicly funded as they can't be split - roads, defence, street lights, etc.

Schools and healthcare (outside of emergencies) can easily have a line drawn where they are or are not used.
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But the people providing those services may well have been through the public education system (for example) so you are still benefitting from the taxation-funding.
 
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