• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Gutter Boy said:
Absolutely. GPD is a measure of two things - how out of control your birth and/or immigration rate is, and how quickly you are burning dinosaurs. It's just a how bad your ponzi scheme is rating.
Click to expand...
The idea that one very outdated measure of post-WW2 production levels has dominated economic thinking for so long is astounding really. We need to break from that way of thinking, which also means we need to break from capitalism. There is no path away from the looming climate hell that works with capitalism. Rapid system change in the next few years to something sustainable is the only thing that will give our children any chance to survive.
Back to the point, we need new tools and measurements. I've not got through Raworth's Donut Economics (mostly because I am constantly underlining passages and rereading them) but it is a fantastic model if not a borderline genius way of looking at things IMO. But there are other systems and measurements all of which make more sense than the current way. I might even invent my own later once I've consumed enough wine!

Has anyone read "Karl Marx’s Ecosocialism" by Saito? I'm seeing very good comments popping up everywhere about it.
 
Legohamster said:
Continuing to print more money will lead to more inflation, giving people inflation matching pay rises will extend the inflation levels, we are living way beyond our means as a country - private and public debt massive.

Public spending and reforms on areas like the NHS wastage needs to be looked at.

Everyone wanted free money and cheered on lockdowns/free tests/Go hard on Russia etc and no one wants the pay back to affect them
Click to expand...

Most of the wealth is now in the hands of a small proportion of the population (individuals and companies) who employ people to help them avoid paying their share of the tax burden, and who have not been properly held to account by governments.

That is a huge problem.
 
Rorschach said:
The idea that one very outdated measure of post-WW2 production levels has dominated economic thinking for so long is astounding really. We need to break from that way of thinking, which also means we need to break from capitalism. There is no path away from the looming climate hell that works with capitalism. Rapid system change in the next few years to something sustainable is the only thing that will give our children any chance to survive.
Back to the point, we need new tools and measurements. I've not got through Raworth's Donut Economics (mostly because I am constantly underlining passages and rereading them) but it is a fantastic model if not a borderline genius way of looking at things IMO. But there are other systems and measurements all of which make more sense than the current way. I might even invent my own later once I've consumed enough wine!

Has anyone read "Karl Marx’s Ecosocialism" by Saito? I'm seeing very good comments popping up everywhere about it.
Click to expand...

The keys measures I'd have as the key dashboard and would like to see quarterly press conferences addressing as measures of national success would be:
1) Percentage of all energy and fuel needs met by domestic wind and solar generation (ambition of 100% within a decade)
2) Income gap between richest 10% and poorest 10% (ambition of 5:1 within a decade, currently 10:1)
3) House price to salary ratio (ambition of 4:1 within a decade, currently 8:1)
4) Population level (ambition of 0.5% decline per year)
 
Gutter Boy said:
The keys measures I'd have as the key dashboard and would like to see quarterly press conferences addressing as measures of national success would be:
1) Percentage of all energy and fuel needs met by domestic wind and solar generation (ambition of 100% within a decade)
2) Income gap between richest 10% and poorest 10% (ambition of 5:1 within a decade, currently 10:1)
3) House price to salary ratio (ambition of 4:1 within a decade, currently 8:1)
4) Population level (ambition of 0.5% decline per year)
Click to expand...
Certainly, energy production and equality should be two key measurements. The housing one is interesting and possibly could also be broader than house prices. Population is a function of education really, so that is way I would steer it.

We need to work back from the endpoint of how we want our society to look, adding metrics to achieve that aim. The more I think about it the closer I get to just plagiarising Raworth's donut model. Let's run with that. I'll raise it at the next cabinet meeting.
 
Rorschach said:
Certainly, energy production and equality should be two key measurements. The housing one is interesting and possibly could also be broader than house prices. Population is a function of education really, so that is way I would steer it.

We need to work back from the endpoint of how we want our society to look, adding metrics to achieve that aim. The more I think about it the closer I get to just plagiarising Raworth's donut model. Let's run with that. I'll raise it at the next cabinet meeting.
Click to expand...

Population globally is absolutely about education and the emancipation of women. But nationally our natural level has been a minor decline since the mid-90s; its immigration that keeps it increasing. To me this is the ponzi scheme of neo-liberalism. To solve it i would essentially wind down economic migration, and only allow immigration based on compassion (refugees), love (spouses), education and travel; with a cap set to hit that 0.5% annual drop.

I will check out your donut model. My go to manifesto is Georgescu-Roegen's The Entropy Law and the Economic Process.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Population globally is absolutely about education and the emancipation of women. But nationally our natural level has been a minor decline since the mid-90s; its immigration that keeps it increasing. To me this is the ponzi scheme of neo-liberalism. To solve it i would essentially wind down economic migration, and only allow immigration based on compassion (refugees), love (spouses), education and travel; with a cap set to hit that 0.5% annual drop.

I will check out your donut model. My go to manifesto is Georgescu-Roegen's The Entropy Law and the Economic Process.
Click to expand...
Well, this is where we probably diverge in our thinking. Borders will not mean a whole lot in a few years IMO. I see the ebb and flow of immigrants more as the story of humanity and this will continue ad Infinitum until there are none of us left. Borders are a fairly recent construct anyway and I predict in our lifetimes they will dissolve into nothing again. I know this taps into the whole EU/Brexit area a little so I'll steer clear of that except to say that the network of connections between you and your neighbours needs to be revisited. We are all in this together.
 
So Sunak is running. Yep, there is a definite need for more former hedge fund managers and multi millionaires to run the county. It's only fair! As I said a long time ago, Sunak would be and was convicted of breaking lock down laws. That will be a problem for him. Can the Tories have another convict as their leader?
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
So Sunak is running. Yep, there is a definite need for more former hedge fund managers and multi millionaires to run the county. It's only fair! As I said a long time ago, Sunak would be and was convicted of breaking lock down laws. That will be a problem for him. Can the Tories have another convict as their leader?
Click to expand...

Just the fact he’s spoken about rebuilding the economy. His memory must be atrocious pretty sure he was in charge of that the last three years .
 
Legohamster said:
Who ever comes in next needs to be honest about the financial situation of the country and why we can’t continue to print money.

Rishi is the only one that seemed to want to pass that message on.
Click to expand...

Rishi's my man, doubt he'll get it. The tax stuff with his wife and partygate will cost him but he seems the most competent. I also hear good things about Penny Mourdant and Ben Wallace but don't know too much about them.
 
Baleforce said:
Or because they know there are no easy fixes so don’t stoop to using essentially meaningless sound bites and nobody has the patience to listen to them.
Click to expand...

Currently I think that is the case. Brexit is still a massive obstacle, whoever picks up the baton now has financial issues, trade issues, NI to deal with. Also the malaise of government Ministries over the past 5 years. It's all a bit stale and needs reinvigorating. Normally the Tory Leadership election would attract the best MPs they have. Not now. That is a concern.

UK politics probably did attract better people in the last century. Now, the power-hungry end up as MPs. There are many many exceptions and most MPs are very decent, relatively hard-working, and competent. But are they visionaries? Do they have much of an understanding to be in a cabinet and lead the nations? Few who have such credentials would subject themselves to public office I think. Instead they'll earn far more, and have a freer life.

It is just one area of UK politics that needs fixing imo.
 
Last edited:
Seems insane that the whole leadership election is being framed around tax cuts for the rich. I guess its all aimed at MPs/party members, but seems massively out of step with the reality of the country out there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back