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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

scaramanga said:
That would suprise me in the UK where you'd likely have to cut down half a forest for a large beef farm and the distances are far smaller. At least I'd expect the equation to be far closer.

Either way, it's the consumer's choice. Those who can afford to be choosy still will, those who cannot will be able to get meat cheaper.

I'd prefer it if all clothes were made by tailors on Savile Row, but I accept that it's better to have to see chavs in sportswear than waddling about naked.
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I think its just the carbon costs associated with growing and transporting all that grain which grass-fed cows don't have. Grass-fed also self fertilise, with no transport costs! Grass-fed free-range beef is said to be more or less carbon neutral. Grain-fed on the other hand adds significant carbon to the environment.

Obviously transporting beef all the way from Oz can't be good either.

Suffice to say that for food producers and for UK food consumers, Brexit hasn't been a great success so far. It has increased costs and complexity of buying/selling for and from local producers and lowered standards for imports. Maybe there will be some lower prices for certain items like grain-fed beef in the future, but that is hardly a win. Hopefully we'll see more British-produced foods consumed in the UK. Things like Markel, Lamb etc are great value produced on our doorstep. Undermining our own producers and buying cheap lamb and beef from the other side of the world (which is lower quality) doesn't seem to make sense. Most were expecting more from Brexit, weren't they?
 
SpurMeUp said:
I think its just the carbon costs associated with growing and transporting all that grain which grass-fed cows don't have. Grass-fed also self fertilise, with no transport costs! Grass-fed free-range beef is said to be more or less carbon neutral. Grain-fed on the other hand adds significant carbon to the environment.

Obviously transporting beef all the way from Oz can't be good either.

Suffice to say that for food producers and for UK food consumers, Brexit hasn't been a great success so far. It has increased costs and complexity of buying/selling for and from local producers and lowered standards for imports. Maybe there will be some lower prices for certain items like grain-fed beef in the future, but that is hardly a win. Hopefully we'll see more British-produced foods consumed in the UK. Things like Markel, Lamb etc are great value produced on our doorstep. Undermining our own producers and buying cheap lamb and beef from the other side of the world (which is lower quality) doesn't seem to make sense. Most were expecting more from Brexit, weren't they?
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If foreign producers are cheaper and/or better than ours then ours don't deserve the business.

Consumers should be free to buy from wherever in the world the supply suits their requirements. If that's at the cost of UK suppliers then they're not doing their jobs. If the government have regulated UK suppliers out of competition then they're not doing their jobs.
 
AuroRaman said:
Read my post again
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Which part do you think doesn't fit? The bit where you don't think people would still want to eat that food?

If so, I disagree. The human brain is excellent and compartmentalising and rationalising. It's incredibly simple to just not think about someone you don't want to think about - like if someone you know dies but you've got work to do. You just don't think about it until you're done.
 
scaramanga said:
Which part do you think doesn't fit? The bit where you don't think people would still want to eat that food?

If so, I disagree. The human brain is excellent and compartmentalising and rationalising. It's incredibly simple to just not think about someone you don't want to think about - like if someone you know dies but you've got work to do. You just don't think about it until you're done.
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My bad, my post wasn’t clear enough.

Taking any moral argument out of the equation, the flesh and secretions we eat are making us sick due to unseen and/or unregulated practices in farms.

edit: Also, I think you’d be very surprised at the number of people who consider their food choices when shown exactly how it gets to their plate.
 
AuroRaman said:
My bad, my post wasn’t clear enough.

Taking any moral argument out of the equation, the flesh and secretions we eat are making us sick due to unseen and/or unregulated practices in farms.

edit: Also, I think you’d be very surprised at the number of people who consider their food choices when shown exactly how it gets to their plate.
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That is why I think clean meat will play a big part in solving this issue from a climate and ethical perspective. If they can get it to scale to the point fast food outlets source clean meat in the products their impact will be huge.
 
Rorschach said:
That is why I think clean meat will play a big part in solving this issue from a climate and ethical perspective. If they can get it to scale to the point fast food outlets source clean meat in the products their impact will be huge.
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or we could just transition to a plant-based food system ;)
 
AuroRaman said:
or we could just transition to a plant-based food system ;)
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We definitely should, or at least eat more plant-based products and less meat, but the ample supply of fresh high-quality cheap meat doesn't help in that regard. I imagine if there was close to price parity options for meat alternatives, either plant-based meats or clean meat, then that would have huge market ramifications. But we are not there yet.
 
AuroRaman said:
My bad, my post wasn’t clear enough.

Taking any moral argument out of the equation, the flesh and secretions we eat are making us sick due to unseen and/or unregulated practices in farms.

edit: Also, I think you’d be very surprised at the number of people who consider their food choices when shown exactly how it gets to their plate.
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I really don't think that's a large number of cases at all. I posted some stats on illnesses caused by various types of meat between countries earlier in this thread - when chlorinated chicken was first being discussed.

Even as someone who already thought the numbers would be low, I was surprised just how low the numbers were.
 
scaramanga said:
I really don't think that's a large number of cases at all. I posted some stats on illnesses caused by various types of meat between countries earlier in this thread - when chlorinated chicken was first being discussed.

Even as someone who already thought the numbers would be low, I was surprised just how low the numbers were.
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Meat and dairy in general cause all manner of health issues, short and long-term up to death. The state that the animals and environment that provide this source are kept in absolutely factor into that.
 
AuroRaman said:
Meat and dairy in general cause all manner of health issues, short and long-term up to death. The state that the animals and environment that provide this source are kept in absolutely factor into that.
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The numbers are incredibly small. So small that they may as well be zero.

Google tells me it accounts for 0.03% of deaths in the UK. I think it's safe to say there are plenty of other, far more pertinent concerns.
 
I remember being in Kerala about 15 years ago, before India was fully developed. Ordering a chicken biryani dish sitting on the beach. The chicken used was scratching around out the back and running around free. The difference to the texture of the meat is massive. There is flavour and a totally different texture with meat/muscle that is used. You get strands of meat, as opposed to spongey meat with little texture or flavour.

Meat should be more expensive. And should be special. Not something to eat every day necessarily imo. Paying a little more for something that tastes better, is better for you (not been pumped full of antibiotics, hormones etc), plus helps the animal have a half-decent life. As for fast food, I think we'll eventually grow meat in petri dishes for cheap quick 'meat'. We're already doing it right?
 
scaramanga said:
The numbers are incredibly small. So small that they may as well be zero.

Google tells me it accounts for 0.03% of deaths in the UK. I think it's safe to say there are plenty of other, far more pertinent concerns.
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When someone dies of heart disease, it’s stated as heart disease. Not Molly the Cow.
 
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