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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

glasgowspur said:
Isn't it a fait accompli though?
Should a govt be elected on a ditch brexit ticket would the EU have us back?
Especially if it was a close thing like the ref vote, it could lead to an hokey cokey in out series of election flip flops were no one would know what the fudge was going on.
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Well it is a done deal. That is undeniable in the short to medium term. Longer-term who knows but even Starmer is not really pitching the 'rejoin' message yet nor should he. I think what is important for those who wish to pursue a closer alliance with the EU, whether now or later, is that there is a deal of some description with the EU. A no-deal is a scorched wasteland of acrimony for years to come. A deal, no matter how brick it is, is a bridge to future discussions. I think that is where things are at now.
 
glasgowspur said:
Isn't it a fait accompli though?
Should a govt be elected on a ditch brexit ticket would the EU have us back?
Especially if it was a close thing like the ref vote, it could lead to an hokey cokey in out series of election flip flops were no one would know what the fudge was going on.
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The thing is if the EU would have us back, it would be with no rebate and us accepting the euro... even i as a pro European would find that difficult to accept.

The country would have to be in a terrible state to accept those terms.

And if we are in that state then all the brexiteers should be strung up by their boll ocks... no custurd allowed.
 
DTA said:
The thing is if the EU would have us back, it would be with no rebate and us accepting the euro... even i as a pro European would find that difficult to accept.

The country would have to be in a terrible state to accept those terms.

And if we are in that state then all the brexiteers should be strung up by their boll ocks... no custurd allowed.
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The EU would accept the UK back. There is no doubt about that, but it would be only as a fully paid-up card-carrying member. No associate membership this time I would think.
 
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Rorschach said:
The EU would accept the UK back. There is no doubt about that, but it would be only as a fully paid-up card-carrying member. No associate membership this time would think.
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Thats what I said, no rebate... no sterling. If we are in a position that we have to accept those terms then the Brexiteers should be... like I said strung up by the gonads
 
I think the EU would simply cancel the exit and we could have the same setup, minus the EU Banking Authority regulator and Pharma one which have moved from the UK already. Its too embarrassing for too many people to happen of course. The only way I can see it happening now is if people are allowed to look at the final Brexit-EU trade deal and landscape and then decide. That or Boris making a pigs ear of it.

Imagine if we went back to how things were. The pound would skyrocket. The UK (as a stong union) would get huge inward investment being back in the largest free market in the world, and we'd retain fast flows of goods that we rely on.
 
DTA said:
Thats what I said, no rebate... no sterling. If we are in a position that we have to accept those terms then the Brexiteers should be... like I said strung up by the gonad*s
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Yes I was agreeing with you. Not gonna happen for 10 years though, if ever, would be my opinion.
 
SpurMeUp said:
I think the EU would simply cancel the exit and we could have the same setup, minus the EU Banking Authority regulator and Pharma one which have moved from the UK already. Its too embarrassing for too many people to happen of course. The only way I can see it happening now is if people are allowed to look at the final Brexit-EU trade deal and landscape and then decide. That or Boris making a pigs ear of it.

Imagine if we went back to how things were. The pound would skyrocket. The UK (as a stong union) would get huge inward investment being back in the largest free market in the world, and we'd retain fast flows of goods that we rely on.
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I would love for us to go back to how things were, but its not happening. We either make a success of Brexit (which i genuinely hope we do) or go back with a begging bowl. And if we go back with a begging bowl then the Brexiteers who lied to the public should be on trial with charges of treason. And those that supported them should be publicly shamed ;)
 
DTA said:
I would love for us to go back to how things were, but its not happening. We either make a success of Brexit (which i genuinely hope we do) or go back with a begging bowl. And if we go back with a begging bowl then the Brexiteers who lied to the public should be on trial with charges of treason. And those that supported them should be publicly shamed ;)
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I agree wholeheartedly up until the last sentence.

You wouldn’t blame people who are the victims of misselling.


Not normally thought of as a king pin in Brexit, but I actually think Rupert Murdoch was probably the most important man to bring about Brexit. It wasn’t a planned thing. But bit by bit his personal anti-Eu voice permeated the UK, and a small faction of misty-eyed Tory built upon it. Murdoch never liked the EU, because they did not court him as our wannabe PMs do.

So bit by bit Murdoch ensured the narrative was always against the EU. The EU is a pretty dull thing for a tabloid anyway - all trade deals and environmental laws - poking fun at it and appealing to people’s natural jingoistic tendencies was a lot easier.

Murdoch made Nigel Farrage and probably did more than anyone, over many decades, to deliver us to where we are. He wasn’t frontline making promises that couldn’t be kept - and those that did should be remembered. When people have been mis-sold something, you should be able go back to the seller and demand compensation.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
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DTA said:
I have been against Brexit as I dont believe it is good for my country. But since the last election, I fully accepted it would happen and genuinely want it to be a success... I would be a complete idiot not to want it to be a success, as this is where I and most of my family live and where most of my investments are.

However, I am s hitting myself at the thought of this (who now have proved themselves) completely incompetent government handling this.

How do you long time Brexiteers feel about this?
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I was purely having a joke with @Diamond Lights by quoting his post.

This government have been slow to react with regards the pandemic. But I dont believe the death figures to be any worse then other countries especially as some are not including care home deaths.

As for say Spain and Greece the way their governments were crying out for British tourists in the summer shows me governments around the world have no real idea and were trying to get their economies moving again. Total lockdown for places like Australia and New Zealand are easier as they have smaller economies then us and are less reliant on business air travel.

A lot of the criticism of the government is clearly politically motivated. That in itself does not bother me as I did not and will not vote for them. I believe it is time for a centre left government that puts the working and lower middle class at the front of it's policies.

As for the EU it is the same as ever for me. As a trading block great. But when it tries to be more then that it becomes sinister to me. I like accountable democracy and the idea of every 5 years voting people out. Rather then a few lofty elected elite who are voted in by people one level down on the greasy ladder.

The lack of faith that this country can actually continue to function after Brexit like so many other countries do in the world is shocking to me and I genuinely would like psych evaluations on the people so opposed to it, so as to find out why they are so opposed to it.

I have noticed a general trend from the people I meet who are opposed to it and most are politically left leaning, have never been in jobs where they create an income, most having a loathing of Englishness while rejoicing in other nations and most have not travelled much outside of Europe.

Just my observation and not actually aimed at anyone on this board but from people I have met.
 
SpurMeUp said:
I think the EU would simply cancel the exit and we could have the same setup, minus the EU Banking Authority regulator and Pharma one which have moved from the UK already. Its too embarrassing for too many people to happen of course. The only way I can see it happening now is if people are allowed to look at the final Brexit-EU trade deal and landscape and then decide. That or Boris making a pigs ear of it.

Imagine if we went back to how things were. The pound would skyrocket. The UK (as a stong union) would get huge inward investment being back in the largest free market in the world, and we'd retain fast flows of goods that we rely on.
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So not only would we, once again, not be free to trade with the rest of the world but our products and services would be too expensive to trade with the EU.

Doesn't sound great to me.
 
scaramanga said:
So not only would we, once again, not be free to trade with the rest of the world but our products and services would be too expensive to trade with the EU.

Doesn't sound great to me.
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Every economist worth their salt knows it is better to have a strong currency.

-Our economy is developed we are not like China exporting lots of goods. I know you personally may do. But as a nation we import more so a weaker currency hit us more.

-Most things are more expensive now in the UK. A laptop or a food shop costs people more now. That makes everyone poorer. How can that be good?

- a currencies value is a reflection of how the market rates a nations future prospects, a lower currency is a judgment on how well the UK will perform over the coming months and years.

-Germany and Italy export tonnes more than the UK to the rest of world quite freely, from within the EU. So it’s a misnomer that we’ll suddenly start trading with the rest of the world post exit. Why aren’t we doing it now?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
DTA said:
How do you long time Brexiteers feel about this?
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They're not ideal at all to be dealing with this.

However. We essentially have a two party system in this country and the only alternative to those we have are a party that betrayed its constituents to follow party lines, run by an arch remainder who has repeatedly pushed for a deal so close as to resemble not having left at all.

So they're by far the best option we have.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Every economist worth their salt knows it is better to have a strong currency.

-Our economy is developed we are not like China exporting lots of goods. I know you personally may do. But as a nation we import more so a weaker currency hit us more.

-Most things are more expensive now in the UK. A laptop or a food shop costs people more now. That makes everyone poorer. How can that be good?

- a currencies value is a reflection of how the market rates a nations future prospects, a lower currency is a judgment on how well the UK will perform over the coming months and years.

-Germany and Italy export tonnes more than the UK to the rest of world quite freely, from within the EU. So it’s a misnomer that we’ll suddenly start trading with the rest of the world post exit. Why aren’t we doing it now?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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A strong currency is not the same as a currency that rockets - that just damages exports and fudges the economy.

We have a strong currency.
 
We were better off in the EU. None of this was worth it economically as none of the main political parties will make a success of it. For me it's a populist wet dream and most folk were sold it with flag waving patriotism. The Tories are worse than the EU in terms of corruption and not giving an eff about the average man. Labour never really wanted to leave and the rest are insignificant. It was never going to be a success with what we have. And as much as I want us to be better off because of it at some point I know in reality it won't happen which is the worst part of it.
 
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LutonSpurs said:
We were better off in the EU. None of this was worth it economically as none of the main political parties will make a success of it. For me it's a populist wet dream and most folk were sold it with flag waving patriotism. The Tories are worse than the EU in terms of corruption and not giving an eff about the average man. Labour never really wanted to leave and the rest are insignificant. It was never going to be a success with what we have. And as much as I want us to be better off because of it at some point I know in reality it won't happen which is the worst part of it.
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If that's the case then we can vote the Conservatives out in a few years.

We can't vote the EU out other than in the way we did.
 
SpurMeUp said:
:D


--
Can't vote out the House of Lords - big deal! Can vote for EU MEPs. No one did or cared.
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Voting for MEPs has little to no effect.

I can and have sat for a meal with the local MP from one.of our factories and she successfully went to bat and lobbied DEFRA on our behalf, making changes that kept our industry viable. That's not possible with MEPs. You can't change EU regulations by making them care about 100 jobs in one constituency.
 
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