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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

shows a weakness in the university entry system imo, it shouldn't be so reliant on actual grades, if you are prepared to offer someone a place based on years of prior performance and in person interviews, that place shouldn't go away if they have one bad day in an exam hall

you wouldn't court a potential employee for months then decide not to hire them because they had one bad interview

also, the system they used, requiring a ranking, is ridiculous
 
galeforce said:
shows a weakness in the university entry system imo, it shouldn't be so reliant on actual grades, if you are prepared to offer someone a place based on years of prior performance and in person interviews, that place shouldn't go away if they have one bad day in an exam hall
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agreed that the uni entry system isnt perfect, but what would the alternative be? its a model used globally afaik. also, there is a coursework element, as well as multiple exams per subject - i'm not really sure how realistic it would be to overhaul this and produce something notably better. having said that, i suspect that education would be better provided privately (ie. not by the government), and under that structure, this fiasco would've been avoided as schools still need to protect their prestige, and so teachers would not have inflated results - but that is another debate.

galeforce said:
you wouldn't court a potential employee for months then decide not to hire them because they had one bad interview

also, the system they used, requiring a ranking, is ridiculous
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i dont agree that this is a correct analogy on the basis that the universities dont really want/care for who eventually gets in. from what i understand, more offers than places available are handed out, and then the final exams are used to filter the group down to the number of places actually available. its not like us wanting mourinho based on years of results and qualifications.
 
Wilheldiva said:
agreed that the uni entry system isnt perfect, but what would the alternative be? its a model used globally afaik. also, there is a coursework element, as well as multiple exams per subject - i'm not really sure how realistic it would be to overhaul this and produce something notably better. having said that, i suspect that education would be better provided privately (ie. not by the government), and under that structure, this fiasco would've been avoided as schools still need to protect their prestige, and so teachers would not have inflated results - but that is another debate.



i dont agree that this is a correct analogy on the basis that the universities dont really want/care for who eventually gets in. from what i understand, more offers than places available are handed out, and then the final exams are used to filter the group down to the number of places actually available. its not like us wanting mourinho based on years of results and qualifications.
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it should be like job recruitment, what is this person bringing to the organisation, universities should really really care about who gets in, and compete with each other for the top candidates, the power dynamic should be equal between student and school

they shouldn't offer more places than they have either
 
galeforce said:
it should be like job recruitment, what is this person bringing to the organisation, universities should really really care about who gets in, and compete with each other for the top candidates, the power dynamic should be equal between student and school
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i agree, but that can only happen when the government doesnt get involved with the provision of student loans. as it stands, universities will have to find a balance between finding the best students, and pandering to any government requirements (ie. being artificially diverse, running pointless courses, building unnecessary facilities etc)

galeforce said:
they shouldn't offer more places than they have either
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this is just how it works currently. if a uni were to offer only the number of places it had - it wouldnt fill its capacity at the start of term. imagine you are UCL offering economics. If you offer a conditional place to a student, you could be their 3rd choice after oxford and lse for example. you can imagine the mess this would cause on results day...
 
Wilheldiva said:
i agree, but that can only happen when the government doesnt get involved with the provision of student loans. as it stands, universities will have to find a balance between finding the best students, and pandering to any government requirements (ie. being artificially diverse, running pointless courses, building unnecessary facilities etc)



this is just how it works currently. if a uni were to offer only the number of places it had - it wouldnt fill its capacity at the start of term. imagine you are UCL offering economics. If you offer a conditional place to a student, you could be their 3rd choice after oxford and lse for example. you can imagine the mess this would cause on results day...
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I’m saying they should offer the places they have, irrespective of exam results, on wider longer term criteria, students should sit the exams with their places already confirmed and accepted.

There would need to be some kind of trade system for students who decide the course wasn’t for them or whatever.

Diversity won’t be artificial if recruitment is done correctly and in the right places.

Loan amounts and incentives, controlled by the govt is fine, if it’s targeted to skills gaps, for example, we need doctors, so anyone who signs up now for medical courses, and passes, gets it for free, you want to do media studies, ok, but the vig is 50%. Ten years from now, if we have too many doctors but a shortage of wannabe TV presenters, we flip it.

The entire point of the education system is to develop better humans, let’s give them the best chance we have.
 
Wilheldiva said:
its worrying to see that the government dont have any cojones and have just given in to the masses here. this is not to say that their process for "normalising results" wasn't a load of rubbish either.

like other "movements" and "protests" held by large portions of the population in recent months that the government have done nothing about, the government have shown that they are not about protecting property, liberty, and rights of individuals. but rather, they are weak, and simply pandering to the masses.
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You seem surprised. Why? The government is led by a man who wrote two opposing newspaper articles on Brexit and then plumped to publish the one that he thought backed the winning side.

As Michael Heseltine said, Boris waits to see which way the crowd is marching and then runs to get to the front. He is without conviction.
 
galeforce said:
I’m saying they should offer the places they have, irrespective of exam results, on wider longer term criteria, students should sit the exams with their places already confirmed and accepted.

There would need to be some kind of trade system for students who decide the course wasn’t for them or whatever.

Diversity won’t be artificial if recruitment is done correctly and in the right places.

Loan amounts and incentives, controlled by the govt is fine, if it’s targeted to skills gaps, for example, we need doctors, so anyone who signs up now for medical courses, and passes, gets it for free, you want to do media studies, ok, but the vig is 50%. Ten years from now, if we have too many doctors but a shortage of wannabe TV presenters, we flip it.

The entire point of the education system is to develop better humans, let’s give them the best chance we have.
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I do wonder why they don't do that type of thing for needed professions like doctors, dentists and nurses etc who can all go into public sector jobs. Why not say if you work for the government for say 15 years then your loans/fees are wiped e.g. first 5 years no reduction, then next 5 years 5% taken off per year then final 5 years 15% knocked off per year. Maybe I'm missing something or it's too sensible for this government.
 
P.D. said:
I do wonder why they don't do that type of thing for needed professions like doctors, dentists and nurses etc who can all go into public sector jobs. Why not say if you work for the government for say 15 years then your loans/fees are wiped e.g. first 5 years no reduction, then next 5 years 5% taken off per year then final 5 years 15% knocked off per year. Maybe I'm missing something or it's too sensible for this government.
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I don't even think you'd need to handcuff it that long, just covering the degree should be enough, you'd lose some of them to private/freelance/loss of interest, but the majority would end up where you needed them, particularly in the medical profession I would think.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Genuine question do you prefer decision u-turned or stick to them?
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I'd prefer there wasn't a catalogue or wrong decisions made almost on a weekly basis by the people running this country personally. Dont think we should congratulate them getting to the right decision too late as always (and again, people have been negatively effected by this already, people have missed Uni spots etc).

You can forgive the odd rooster up, it's the continual stream of poor decision making. And then what happens? Nothing. I mean, Chris Grayling was pushed for a new job for fudges sake.

This brick wouldn't fly in the private sector, CEO's sacked, senior management cuts. This government? We laud them and have papers supporting them for brick.
 
Diamond Lights said:
I'd prefer there wasn't a catalogue or wrong decisions made almost on a weekly basis by the people running this country personally. Dont think we should congratulate them getting to the right decision too late as always (and again, people have been negatively effected by this already, people have missed Uni spots etc).

You can forgive the odd rooster up, it's the continual stream of poor decision making. And then what happens? Nothing. I mean, Chris Grayling was pushed for a new job for fudges sake.

This brick wouldn't fly in the private sector, CEO's sacked, senior management cuts. This government? We laud them and have papers supporting them for brick.
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Fair comment

I think this subject is one where they could have stuck with the original decision rather than flip flop, I don't see amended results due to no exam as a huge faux pas. I personally question them more on today then a week ago.
 
P.D. said:
I do wonder why they don't do that type of thing for needed professions like doctors, dentists and nurses etc who can all go into public sector jobs. Why not say if you work for the government for say 15 years then your loans/fees are wiped e.g. first 5 years no reduction, then next 5 years 5% taken off per year then final 5 years 15% knocked off per year. Maybe I'm missing something or it's too sensible for this government.
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government should just not involve themselves with student loans imo. university fees would fall drastically, and corporations can fill the gap in terms of providing loans (if needed), in a similar method to what you have stated.
 
galeforce said:
I’m saying they should offer the places they have, irrespective of exam results, on wider longer term criteria, students should sit the exams with their places already confirmed and accepted.

There would need to be some kind of trade system for students who decide the course wasn’t for them or whatever.

Diversity won’t be artificial if recruitment is done correctly and in the right places.

Loan amounts and incentives, controlled by the govt is fine, if it’s targeted to skills gaps, for example, we need doctors, so anyone who signs up now for medical courses, and passes, gets it for free, you want to do media studies, ok, but the vig is 50%. Ten years from now, if we have too many doctors but a shortage of wannabe TV presenters, we flip it.

The entire point of the education system is to develop better humans, let’s give them the best chance we have.
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we can just let the free market allocate human resources where fit - i'm sure it would do an infinitely better job than this shambles of a government.

if government didnt involve themselves with student loans, costs would fall. re skills gaps, salary increases (from recruitment shortages) would naturally lead to more interest in certain jobs/fields of study.
 
Mikey10 said:
I know The Guardian will always have an agenda when it comes to the Tories, but it’s quite the list of f.uck ups when you gather some together.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-u-turns-and-missteps?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Apparently there are now serious rumblings about Boris on the Conservative back-benches.
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Boris is there to carry the can for Brexit. No MP with any nous wants the PMs job with Brexit hanging over them. Ironically, it’s in Boris’ interests to draw out Brexit as it’s his power meal ticket; him and his blundering cronies could be in the job a while yet with the ready meal undercooked. Really Brexit is a cook it from scratch affair using a spud and a couple of leeks, to apparently deliver complexities Heston Blumenthal wouldn’t dream of.

The damage to the UK economy of this plus Corona (and the government trying to handle both at once) is massive.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
SpurMeUp said:
Boris is there to carry the can for Brexit. No MP with any nous wants the PMs job with Brexit hanging over them. Ironically, it’s in Boris’ interests to draw out Brexit as it’s his power meal ticket; him and his blundering cronies could be in the job a while yet with the ready meal undercooked. Really Brexit is a cook it from scratch affair using a spud and a couple of leeks, to apparently deliver complexities Heston Blumenthal wouldn’t dream of.

The damage to the UK economy of this plus Corona (and the government trying to handle both at once) is massive.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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seen Gove recently? Nope

see his wife digging at the Gov via her daily mail job? Yes
 
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