Grays_1890
Chris Jones
No course not, just part of the percentage that makes up the stats. In an almost full circle convo they are the ones in pubs moaning about foreigners taking all the jobs...
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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
- Start date
No course not, just part of the percentage that makes up the stats. In an almost full circle convo they are the ones in pubs moaning about foreigners taking all the jobs...
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
Oh, I thought , you know, that you might have actually experienced it. Ever gone hungry? Ever not had warm clothes in winter? Ever had to experience a sustained period of being unemployed?
thfcsteff
George Hunt
Answers in bold within quote mate...
My point is they are failing the bare minimum by choice.
Agreed. I have said that. Hungry kids matter
But if the list and numbers is politicised, you need to know how many of them are down to the state. That report said a fifth of all UK children are in 'food insecure households' , 1 in 5!, looking around im not seeing 20% of households that look poor enough to struggle to put food on the table through choice and events that are not of their own making. 20% would be massively visible.
I am not prepared to say the same with any confidence.
Believe me my overarching thoughts on the social economic behaviour of (largely) the western world is very much aligned with yours. And perhaps our trips to the 'third world' has contributed to reevaluating our perspective that was more than likely part of our conditioning thru our youth?
Maybe mate. We are doubtless on the same page but I've always felt that way.
But the plastic poor need educating or at least some realisation of why they are in the situation. For example if someone came into a 'food help' centre and asked for food or money to feed their kid and you gave them a form to complete and the first three questions were....Do you smoke?....Do you buy bottle or cans?....Do you bet?.....if they answered yes to any of them, the (harsh) temptation is to say 'do-one', ''sort your priorities then come back and see us'.
I do have a problem (a bee in the bonnet) with people making bad (life) choices, and then expecting others to support them or bail them out, especially when it comes along with the whole 'i'm a victim' diatribe.You make your bed etc......
Agreed re: education, it is the cornerstone of all. Again I am not prepared to agree wholeheartedly. Handouts for layabouts who are sponging? No. Assistance for those struggling? Yes. Including the poorly educated and some who are making poor choices.
Agreed, i think we should pay more.Within our friends and family, when someone buys something ridiculously cheap i'll flippantly in a dark comedic way say 'Get in! Only a couple of kids died making that' .
I think that's slightly patronising towards the Indian mum,it's a simple way of life but she's doing the bare minimum three things well. she's happy (and proud) doing what she does, Does she want a higher standard of living who knows? If that comes with the western distractions, then i hope not as the ship she runs sails ok, and the faux higher standard of living many Britons think they have doesn't look to be working out in a food sense, debt and happiness?
What's patronizing? Wishing for a society where that Mum is not waiting by a stove dutifully doing those three things? I might be missing your point there. I agree with the sentiments of your last sentence, but let's not pretend the lifestyle has come about through choice. This is the life which they have been dealt. I don't see many here exchanging their lives for those of hers.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
I agree that "four job households" is stretching it, so let's say even three job households (Mum with two domestic type jobs, Dad with one) or single parents working two jobs.
And if we were to agree to the "each parent with one full-time, one part-time job" scenario, I'd wager neither job is crushing the income bracket. Add to that the extraordinary lack of time spent with kids or even at home, and it is clear to me that we have a major issue.
Yet we have a preposterously high minimum wage in this country, coupled with a very generous in-work benefits scheme.
So even as a 2 job household, their income would be over £36k. Plus the govt would provide them with housing, tax credits, child allowance, free nursery hours, etc.
Given that there are currently more jobs than there are willing people to fill them, it's not a scenario that is out of people's own control.
ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
Just to be clear (although you have probably understood already) there are many people on that list whom rightfully qualify to be on it (sadly).
It's the 'dutifully' bit about the Indian mum. (in a manner motivated by duty rather than desire or enthusiasm)...I'm seeing a mum who takes pride in doing those three things for her kids well. She WANTS to do it. Society can improve her life, it can also 'improve' her life with TOWIE, DFS, Proceesed food, Primark, 60 inch tvs, Facebook, Credit cards and Payday Loans. All potentially detrimental to your kids.
And i wouldn't be so sure that many aren't seeking simplicity of some type.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
You're right.
How could anybody be so naive.
Poor, malnourished people in Britain, Great Britain? A myth!
I wonder how many here with two kids would be able to live on 36k a year? I wonder how many with two kids would be able to make 36k a year AND get free housing, etc, etc? And what about the time spent not doing anything other than working?
thfcsteff
George Hunt
We are arguing the same side of the coin. I am -and always have been- a believer in simplicity wherever it can be gained in life. I think my major point was that we have to be careful when it comes to such comparisons. Because the fact remains that the vast majority of the Third World has little option but to make the best of it (choice isn't freely available).
If you don't insist on living in the South East it's not that bad a wage.
ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
And when you do have choice, that's where for many, it all starts to go wrong?
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ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
We were looking for quite a while but eventually bought our house off our landlady (by chance she wanted to sell), we were paying her £1100 a month (3bed), my monthly bills (inc BT BB+sport and running cost of one car (not fuel) is £420 a month. Year cost is £18240. Take that off £36,000 leaves £17760 equals £48.65 a day. The 100% next essential is food, then probably fuel (not essential if you can walk/cycle to work).....beyond the odd emergency ....everything after that is 'shopping'.
You have to live lean (maybe smart?) but if i wake up to nearly £50 on the kitchen table every morning and my kids are malnourished....then money is not the problem.
And (seriously) i live in one of the nicest places in Britain
thfcsteff
George Hunt
You're getting into a philosophical debate here. I don't disagree on the one hand, but on the other, should one have the mandate to offer choice over others? We have the luxury of, err, choice in even saying that.
It's an impossible choice.
Anyone who cares about people understands that those people should not be having kids. But anyone who cares about people understands that one cannot just control who can and cannot have kids.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
How do parents get to work? What associated costs are there? Where do parents find the time to raise children both properly and with nutritious meals?
I understand that this conversation can literally be whittled down to the penny. But it is ALL academic and simply refuses to accept realities and inequities in modern life.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
I would tend to agree that in wider terms the choice is impossible. And I would hope that people having children put them first. As we know it simply doesn't always happen, and I do not believe those children should suffer.
I have to say, I agree that it is a shame some people decide to have children; some shouldn't!
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
If you can’t afford to have kids it’s cruel to bring them into the worlds to poverty. That’s my opinion
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
If you are already on a situation where you struggle to feed two mouths you shouldn’t add a third. Difference to circumstances changing
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
I’m talking about those in a great situation, who have kids, then have to deal with a brickfest that drastically alters their financial state. It happens to people every day.
This pandemic alone has devastated entire industries in a couple of months. Every situation is unique and it’s unfair to judge others based on incomplete data.