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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Legohamster said:
Yet they voted for Boris ahead of Jezza, they would rather this than have him and his shadow cabinet run the country.

Let that sink in....

People would rather be poorer than have Labour in it's current form near number 10.

As predicted the blame game has already started, its not the polices or the man - its the nasty media
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Its quite scary that people are willing to suck that up rathe than have Corbyn but its true
 
I think the biggest 'regret' is the way Labour tried to hide from Brexit. It didn't challenge Boris. It didn't show up his brexit sales trick. It didn't attempt to outline and highlight the pointlessness of Boris' brexit approach or that "Get Brexit done" was simply a way to con people into voting for him.

A more accurate statement would be "Get the first stage of Brexit done". Labour ceded Brexit, rolled over and didn't fight back letting the Tory's claim brexit is simple and done. Which of course it aint.
 
Parklaner81 said:
Even if you had been right, that block would still include a portion of voters who, despite their own personal leave/remain preference, find the blocking of the referendum vote outrageous. That's had a big part in Labours kicking, IMO.
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I genuinely think its exactly that. Anyone thinking they can obstruct the vote (even if they didn't like it) has been shown up to be foolish now
Im personally disappointed that locally we have stuck with the lab minister. He hasnt been bad at all but has gone against the local vote and for me that means he has failed!!!
 
SpurMeUp said:
I think the biggest 'regret' is the way Labour tried to hide from Brexit. It didn't challenge Boris. It didn't show up his brexit sales trick. It didn't attempt to outline and highlight the pointlessness of Boris' brexit approach or that "Get Brexit done" was simply a way to con people into voting for him.

A more accurate statement would be "Get the first stage of Brexit done". Labour ceded Brexit, rolled over and didn't fight back letting the Tory's claim brexit is simple and done. Which of course it aint.
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Everyone stance (other than the Scottish Nazi Party) seems to be slag of the others.. its poor sales technique yet they love it!!!!!
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
The elephant in the room is that Johnson is incompetent. It will almost be worth it to watch the ensuing brick show and the underling mobilizing to replace him when it all goes south. Best wishes to all those in manufacturing jobs for the future in a post Brexit world.
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You may not have noticed, but not too many people on here or more widely have been overly enthusiastic about Johnson's credentials for PM. That he has been chosen so overwhelmingly should therefore tell you a lot about how the public feel about his opponent.

And by the way, speaking for myself, this is the result that preserved my job. I'd have been unemployed by summer had Jezza got his way.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I genuinely think its exactly that. Anyone thinking they can obstruct the vote (even if they didn't like it) has been shown up to be foolish now
Im personally disappointed that locally we have stuck with the lab minister. He hasnt been bad at all but has gone against the local vote and for me that means he has failed!!!
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The smart thing and 'what won it' was Boris simplifying Brexit. Making out that it is just one thing. The truth is, Brexit is a collection of many boring but highly important things - from the irish border and ensuring peace, the unity of the UK, peoples future travel arrangements and freedom, Uk citizens rights in the EU, trade agreements and the Uk economy, and the UKs regulatory legal setup, the EU exit agreement, a future trade agreement with our biggest trading partners and a whole heap of other very boring stuff. But all massively important to the UK. Most of the above is not nearly "done". Only the withdrawal agreement is.

Blocking "it" is a misunderstanding because Brexit is not one thing. Brexit is a collection of dull, but vital ongoing flimflam that will run and run. It will shape the UKs future position in the world so it needs all sorts of time, care, money and patience. Boris pretended it was wrapped up - sorted - that was a lie but also genius.
 
Parklaner81 said:
Even if you had been right, that block would still include a portion of voters who, despite their own personal leave/remain preference, find the blocking of the referendum vote outrageous. That's had a big part in Labours kicking, IMO.
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I consider the initial referendum invalid as it was so obviously flawed, I didn't think stopping Brexit was undemocratic based on that, today, I've flipped, yesterday gives a valid mandate for it.
 
SpurMeUp said:
The smart thing and 'what won it' was Boris simplifying Brexit. Making out that it is just one thing. The truth is, Brexit is a collection of many boring but highly important things - from the irish border and ensuring peace, the unity of the UK, peoples future travel arrangements and freedom, Uk citizens rights in the EU, trade agreements and the Uk economy, and the UKs regulatory legal setup, the EU exit agreement, a future trade agreement with our biggest trading partners and a whole heap of other very boring stuff. But all massively important to the UK. Most of the above is not nearly "done". Only the withdrawal agreement is.

Blocking "it" is a misunderstanding because Brexit is not one thing. Brexit is a collection of dull, but vital ongoing flimflam that will run and run. It will shape the UKs future position in the world so it needs all sorts of time, care, money and patience. Boris pretended it was wrapped up - sorted - that was a lie but also genius.
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Don't fall for Momentum's propaganda.

It wasn't all about Brexit - Labour lost brickloads of votes in Remain constituencies too. This election was a thorough rejection of Marxism and anti-semitism.
 
SpurMeUp said:
The smart thing and 'what won it' was Boris simplifying Brexit. Making out that it is just one thing. The truth is, Brexit is a collection of many boring but highly important things - from the irish border and ensuring peace, the unity of the UK, peoples future travel arrangements and freedom, Uk citizens rights in the EU, trade agreements and the Uk economy, and the UKs regulatory legal setup, the EU exit agreement, a future trade agreement with our biggest trading partners and a whole heap of other very boring stuff. But all massively important to the UK. Most of the above is not nearly "done". Only the withdrawal agreement is.

Blocking "it" is a misunderstanding because Brexit is not one thing. Brexit is a collection of dull, but vital ongoing flimflam that will run and run. It will shape the UKs future position in the world so it needs all sorts of time, care, money and patience. Boris pretended it was wrapped up - sorted - that was a lie but also genius.
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Yep your right. Sell the dream and keep it simple.. treat everyone as idiots or plebs
Its why IMO the Conservatives will be binned off net election as everyone releases their killing the country
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
BTW, I will have the pop corn out when Bozo Boris explains to people how he is going to manage a soft border between Ireland and northern Ireland. That was another tiny detail that the media allowed him to fudge. Lying cnut!
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The border will be in the irish sea, not between the north and south. He is a lying clam though.
 
scaramanga said:
Don't fall for Momentum's propaganda.

It wasn't all about Brexit - Labour lost brickloads of votes in Remain constituencies too. This election was a thorough rejection of Marxism and anti-semitism.
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Not sure i agree but their all bigger negative than having Boris the Bastard on board
 
galeforce said:
I consider the initial referendum invalid as it was so obviously flawed, I didn't think stopping Brexit was undemocratic based on that, today, I've flipped, yesterday gives a valid mandate for it.
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With respect, though, I personally believe that this was a minority view within the wider 'remain' block. At the very least, it wasn't unanimous. My closest friend for example voted remain, and probably would have done so again in a second referendum, but he was absolutely appalled by the political shenanigans - predominantly Labour's - aimed at frustrating the honouring of the result. I don't believe he was alone among remain voters in that.
 
scaramanga said:
Don't fall for Momentum's propaganda.

It wasn't all about Brexit - Labour lost brickloads of votes in Remain constituencies too. This election was a thorough rejection of Marxism and anti-semitism.
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No doubt. Corbyn has been a weak candidate since he took the helm. The mini-rally he had in 2017 was hailed as something but it was a loss against an extremely weak PM. It kept him on. But everyone knew he was toast. All that doesn't change that Labour dropped the ball on Brexit. It was cowardly. Rather than accept the challenge it let Boris tell people brexit was easy and in-hand. It gave the Tories Brexit - and the victory - on a plate. They said thanks v much.
 
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scaramanga said:
Don't fall for Momentum's propaganda.

It wasn't all about Brexit - Labour lost brickloads of votes in Remain constituencies too. This election was a thorough rejection of Marxism and anti-semitism.
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Labour lost seats in Brexit areas with Brext voting/supporting MPs

It was 100 percent about the leader and his arrogance.

For me, its more about Abbott - You can sort of see Jezza as a PM (Albeit a terrible one) but fudging hell... Abbott and some of the other shadow cabinet?

Hard no.
 
Parklaner81 said:
With respect, though, I personally believe that this was a minority view within the wider 'remain' block. At the very least, it wasn't unanimous. My closest friend for example voted remain, and probably would have done so again in a second referendum, but he was absolutely appalled by the political shenanigans - predominantly Labour's - aimed at frustrating the honouring of the result. I don't believe he was alone among remain voters in that.
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Do you accept that Brexit is far more complex than a single issue item? See the list above about what it entails for the nation. The amount of gonads our government has to work through to "get it done" needs some understanding. Everything from pets rights to travel to vital trade arrangements and UK jobs.

I know that is not how leave voters see it. They just want "it" done!
 
SpurMeUp said:
Do you accept that Brexit is far more complex than a single issue item? See the list above about what it entails for the nation. The amount of gonad*s our government has to work through to "get it done" needs some understanding. Everything from pets rights to travel to vital trade arrangements and UK jobs.

I know that is not how leave voters see it. They just want "it" done!
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There is no getting it done. That's the real punchline. This will drag on and on until the end of the British Empire. So not that long really I suppose.
 
Parklaner81 said:
With respect, though, I personally believe that this was a minority view within the wider 'remain' block. At the very least, it wasn't unanimous. My closest friend for example voted remain, and probably would have done so again in a second referendum, but he was absolutely appalled by the political shenanigans - predominantly Labour's - aimed at frustrating the honouring of the result. I don't believe he was alone among remain voters in that.
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100% this
 
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