• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

I'm hesitant to accept 'no extension' as concrete - I just can't see why the EU would agree to it (from their POV - personally I'm very much hoping they do). I also heard it suggested earlier that, if it were concrete, it might actually create a perverse incentive for wavering ERG members to reject the deal.
 
Last edited:
Boris accepting a deal that May thought was too much of a surrender? This setup with a sea border was something the EU suggested prior to May's development of the deal to stop the breakup of the UK. Why isn't there a crying emoji @scaramanga ? Basically we chop off part of the UK, and leave it under the EUs jurisdiction - that's what taking back control meant...

Junkier saying the UK "doesn't need an extension now there is a deal" is far from ruling out one.
 
Last edited:
If he really wanted to get a deal passed he'd amend the rest of the act so no extension has to be requested until say 30 October or something like that.
 
...to think if Boris' deal passes it would only be the first step. The full process could take 5, 10, 15 years? While the UK tries to deliver the cake of trading freely with the EU whilst being able to undercut the EU, the brexit nonsense will continue. The debate as to whether the UK is better off in or out will continue as will parliaments involvement. Meanwhile, the UK suffers.

Doing a big shop yesterday, you do notice how it costs about £20 more than it did pre-vote. If we'd not entered into this mess, we'd be out of austerity, instead our nation is in massive debt still. With taxpayers paying off £40b in interest alone on government borrowing each year!

And all we get from it is to make our own trade deals - which probably isn't much of an advantage. And we will control EU migration - which is the better type of immigration as it works both ways and people prefer Europeans to RoW immigrants who can leave as easily as they came. Other than that there aren't any 'advantages' to Brexit people can point to? Our government can point to a 6-7% loss in national GDP resulting from the type of brexit Boris seems to be pursuing. That is a massive reduction in the UKs prosperity and will affect everyone, costing everyone in the UK a couple of grand a year. Not to mention the effects on public services when there is less money to go round.

This deal also threatens the United Kingdom itself. Ireland has effectively been given up to follow EU rules, with Scotland close behind asking for the same as the Northern Irish have.

Why would anyone back this deal? We lose a lot and gain so little. Utter madness.
 
Last edited:
SpurMeUp said:
...to think if Boris' deal passes it would only be the first step. The full process could take 5, 10, 15 years? While the UK tries to deliver the cake of trading freely with the EU whilst being able to undercut the EU, the brexit nonsense will continue. The debate as to whether the UK is better off in or out will continue as will parliaments involvement. Meanwhile, the UK suffers.

Doing a big shop yesterday, you do notice how it costs about £20 more than it did pre-vote. If we'd not entered into this mess, we'd be out of austerity, instead our nation is in massive debt still. With taxpayers paying off £40b in interest alone on government borrowing each year!

And all we get from it is to make our own trade deals - which probably isn't much of an advantage. And we will control EU migration - which is the better type of immigration as it works both ways and people prefer Europeans to RoW immigrants who can leave as easily as they came. Other than that there aren't any 'advantages' to Brexit people can point to? Our government can point to a 6-7% loss in national GDP resulting from the type of brexit Boris seems to be pursuing. That is a massive reduction in the UKs prosperity and will affect everyone, costing everyone in the UK a couple of grand a year. Not to mention the effects on public services when there is less money to go round.

This deal also threatens the United Kingdom itself. Ireland has effectively been given up to follow EU rules, with Scotland close behind asking for the same as the Northern Irish have.

Why would anyone back this deal? We lose a lot and gain so little. Utter madness.
Click to expand...

Well one reason to vote for it if you are a hard brexiter is that there is still a path to no deal if this passes. If Boris wins this vote there will be a brexit of some sort, either this deal or no deal if a trade deal is not agreed in the transition peroid (I think).

On the plus side, if it passes, NI is getting a sweet deal out of it, which I'm happy about. Scotland will not get a similar deal no matter what. They will have to leave the UK and apply to rejoin the EU. Also, the US might now do a trade deal with the UK as it didn't fudge up the GFA, though I imagine there will be a lot of bending over and not a lot of lube. Beyond that, I'm struggling to think of other positives. Extra fish maybe.
 
Last edited:
@Rorschach there has been a fixation among Leave politicians that you have to threaten No Deal to scare the pants off the EU to get a deal. This stance just illustrates their immaturity imo. Brexit is just a little more complex and requiring of tact than some base horse-trading. Threatening the other party at all, especially the larger stronger entity - one you want to partner with - is not a tactic a mature successful negotiator would take.

Then the idea that we can bluff no deal, and the EU won't see our bluff is just hilarious. Like they can't also see that no deal would be cataclysmic for the UK, losing us more than the EU. Who are these nobs that believe we have to threaten no deal? Oh yeah, a bunch of aging private school educated mugs who really should not be trusted with the nation's trading future.

Furthermore, the Benn act removed no deal from the table, yet Boris got a deal. But then would you expect those who back something so illogical as brexit, to be rational?
 
SpurMeUp said:
@Rorschach there has been a fixation among Leave politicians that you have to threaten No Deal to scare the pants off the EU to get a deal. This stance just illustrates their immaturity imo. Brexit is just a little more complex and requiring of tact than some base horse-trading. Threatening the other party at all, especially the larger stronger entity - one you want to partner with - is not a tactic a mature successful negotiator would take.

Then the idea that we can bluff no deal, and the EU won't see our bluff is just hilarious. Like they can't also see that no deal would be cataclysmic for the UK, losing us more than the EU. Who are these nobs that believe we have to threaten no deal? Oh yeah, a bunch of aging private school educated mugs who really should not be trusted with the nation's trading future.

Furthermore, the Benn act removed no deal from the table, yet Boris got a deal. But then would you expect those who back something so illogical as brexit, to be rational?
Click to expand...
Actually no deal is not banished yet If no trade agreement is reached in transition, I think. But I do agree that trying to bluff by holding a gun to your own head seems a bit barmy.

On the face of it, this deal Boris has cobbled together is far far worse for the UK than even May's deal but it might actually squeak through as everyone has had enough. A veritable war of attrition. This is a tempting viewpoint to take but is wrong of course. Brexit, no matter how painful it is to continue the fight, will affect a generation.
 
Last edited:
Parklaner81 said:
Just what we need - more political maneurvering that obstructs a resolution being reached. Should go down well...
Click to expand...

This is the reality after Johnson started playing stupid games with prorogation etc.
People are now paranoid that everything is a political trick.
Letwin is right that the likes of the ERG could back Boris's deal tomorrow and then not back voting on any of the actual legisation causing a No Deal by default on the 31st.
This is the only way to stop that.
 
Modric THFC said:
This is the reality after Johnson started playing stupid games with prorogation etc.
People are now paranoid that everything is a political trick.
Letwin is right that the likes of the ERG could back Boris's deal tomorrow and then not back voting on any of the actual legisation causing a No Deal by default on the 31st.
This is the only way to stop that.
Click to expand...
Labour voting for the legislation and not playing power politics?
 
SpurMeUp said:
@Rorschach there has been a fixation among Leave politicians that you have to threaten No Deal to scare the pants off the EU to get a deal. This stance just illustrates their immaturity imo. Brexit is just a little more complex and requiring of tact than some base horse-trading. Threatening the other party at all, especially the larger stronger entity - one you want to partner with - is not a tactic a mature successful negotiator would take.

Then the idea that we can bluff no deal, and the EU won't see our bluff is just hilarious. Like they can't also see that no deal would be cataclysmic for the UK, losing us more than the EU. Who are these nobs that believe we have to threaten no deal? Oh yeah, a bunch of aging private school educated mugs who really should not be trusted with the nation's trading future.

Furthermore, the Benn act removed no deal from the table, yet Boris got a deal. But then would you expect those who back something so illogical as brexit, to be rational?
Click to expand...

There's a lot of people who come up with the stereotype that it's a load of right wing nutjobs wanting Brexit but there's millions on the left who also want Brexit. Is Dennis Skinner a right wing toff, how about Bow Crow (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/may/17/exit-europe-from-the-left) or Jenny Jones? Or how about add Corbyn to the mix - one of the biggest Brexiteers in parliament.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back