Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
Oh dear... they don't seem to think much of the Tories leaderbrick contenders either... fixed that for you Scara.
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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
- Start date
Oh dear... they don't seem to think much of the Tories leaderbrick contenders either... fixed that for you Scara.
That was my point. Both Conservative options are terrible, being even worse than them is shameful.Oh dear... they don't seem to think much of the Tories leaderbrick contenders either... fixed that for you Scara.
monkeybarry
Jack Jull
Labour have such an opportunity here - they have taken a jump to left, now take a step to the right with a new leader. Keep Corbyn and McDonald in the cabinet, and they can win a landside
Sadly, they are stuck in a timewarp.
(No, I don't apologize for the above.)
ShipOfTheseus
Clint Dempsey
Ramsey McDonald? Same cohort as Corbyn, I guess.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Labour's shadow cabinet could be set to shift its position on a further Brexit referendum after a meeting on Tuesday.
The party's leader, Jeremy Corbyn, has faced calls to move policy in a more pro-EU direction.
On Monday, trade union leaders backed a referendum on any deal agreed by the Tory government or a no-deal exit from the EU.
They are now calling for Remain to be on the ballot and expect Labour to support that option.
If Labour wins power in a general election, they want a "confirmatory vote" on any new deal negotiated.
However, Labour's stance in a referendum campaign in these circumstances would "depend on the deal negotiated".
Mr Corbyn has previously said he would consult the unions before making any shift in Labour policy.
The shadow cabinet is due to meet at 10:00 BST.
Deputy leader Tom Watson and other leading figures have called for an unambiguously pro-Remain stance amid criticism that confusion over Labour's message contributed to its poor performance in the recent European parliament elections.
But MPs from Leave areas of the UK have warned it could damage the party's election performance.
On Monday, Mr Watson welcomed the agreement by the bosses of Labour's five-biggest affiliated unions as a "step in the right direction", but said his party should not be supporting any form of Brexit.
In a document seen by the BBC, Unite, Unison, the GMB, CWU and Usdaw appear to have moved towards the position advocated by Mr Watson and others by saying that "Remain" should be an option on the ballot paper, and Labour should campaign for it.
In the event of a snap election and a Labour victory, they would expect the new government to negotiate a deal to leave the EU - a position favoured by the Unite union.
However, the deal should be put to a confirmatory vote - a position favoured by Unison and the GMB - and in this scenario "Remain" should also be an option on the ballot paper.
Mr Corbyn has previously said he would be prepared to back a referendum on any Brexit deal put to Parliament.
Mr Corbyn has not guaranteed either to campaign for the UK to stay in the EU or confirmed that this would even be an option on the ballot paper.
The Conservatives said Labour had "no interest in delivering on the referendum result" of 2016.
"Labour promised to respect the Brexit vote, but rerunning the referendum and backing remain would be an attempt to frustrate Brexit and ignore the democratic mandate to deliver it," a spokesman said.
Analysis by Iain Watson
Brexit is the fourth item on the shadow cabinet agenda, but it's likely to dominate the discussion.
Jeremy Corbyn has been under huge pressure to change position on Brexit following a poor result in the European elections.
The unions' call for the party to campaign to remain if a referendum is foisted on a new Conservative leader stands a good chance of gaining shadow cabinet support - even though some MPs in Leave areas won't like it.
But the unions' position on what happens in the event of snap election could prove more problematic.
If Labour were to win, then the unions say an incoming government should negotiate its own Brexit deal.
But the party's deputy leader Tom Watson has said that not even a Labour deal would be as good as Remain.
And the proposal to put any Labour-brokered agreement to a referendum has also raised eyebrows amongst some MPs.
The prominent leave campaigner, Kate Hoey called it "utterly stupid", while some anti-Brexit Labour politicians want guarantees that they could campaign against their own party's deal without being suspended or expelled.
The party's leader, Jeremy Corbyn, has faced calls to move policy in a more pro-EU direction.
On Monday, trade union leaders backed a referendum on any deal agreed by the Tory government or a no-deal exit from the EU.
They are now calling for Remain to be on the ballot and expect Labour to support that option.
If Labour wins power in a general election, they want a "confirmatory vote" on any new deal negotiated.
However, Labour's stance in a referendum campaign in these circumstances would "depend on the deal negotiated".
Mr Corbyn has previously said he would consult the unions before making any shift in Labour policy.
The shadow cabinet is due to meet at 10:00 BST.
Deputy leader Tom Watson and other leading figures have called for an unambiguously pro-Remain stance amid criticism that confusion over Labour's message contributed to its poor performance in the recent European parliament elections.
But MPs from Leave areas of the UK have warned it could damage the party's election performance.
On Monday, Mr Watson welcomed the agreement by the bosses of Labour's five-biggest affiliated unions as a "step in the right direction", but said his party should not be supporting any form of Brexit.
In a document seen by the BBC, Unite, Unison, the GMB, CWU and Usdaw appear to have moved towards the position advocated by Mr Watson and others by saying that "Remain" should be an option on the ballot paper, and Labour should campaign for it.
In the event of a snap election and a Labour victory, they would expect the new government to negotiate a deal to leave the EU - a position favoured by the Unite union.
However, the deal should be put to a confirmatory vote - a position favoured by Unison and the GMB - and in this scenario "Remain" should also be an option on the ballot paper.
Mr Corbyn has previously said he would be prepared to back a referendum on any Brexit deal put to Parliament.
Mr Corbyn has not guaranteed either to campaign for the UK to stay in the EU or confirmed that this would even be an option on the ballot paper.
The Conservatives said Labour had "no interest in delivering on the referendum result" of 2016.
"Labour promised to respect the Brexit vote, but rerunning the referendum and backing remain would be an attempt to frustrate Brexit and ignore the democratic mandate to deliver it," a spokesman said.
Analysis by Iain Watson
Brexit is the fourth item on the shadow cabinet agenda, but it's likely to dominate the discussion.
Jeremy Corbyn has been under huge pressure to change position on Brexit following a poor result in the European elections.
The unions' call for the party to campaign to remain if a referendum is foisted on a new Conservative leader stands a good chance of gaining shadow cabinet support - even though some MPs in Leave areas won't like it.
But the unions' position on what happens in the event of snap election could prove more problematic.
If Labour were to win, then the unions say an incoming government should negotiate its own Brexit deal.
But the party's deputy leader Tom Watson has said that not even a Labour deal would be as good as Remain.
And the proposal to put any Labour-brokered agreement to a referendum has also raised eyebrows amongst some MPs.
The prominent leave campaigner, Kate Hoey called it "utterly stupid", while some anti-Brexit Labour politicians want guarantees that they could campaign against their own party's deal without being suspended or expelled.
The fudging state of our politics when a party leader has to consult with unions.Labour's shadow cabinet could be set to shift its position on a further Brexit referendum after a meeting on Tuesday.
The party's leader, Jeremy Corbyn, has faced calls to move policy in a more pro-EU direction.
On Monday, trade union leaders backed a referendum on any deal agreed by the Tory government or a no-deal exit from the EU.
They are now calling for Remain to be on the ballot and expect Labour to support that option.
If Labour wins power in a general election, they want a "confirmatory vote" on any new deal negotiated.
However, Labour's stance in a referendum campaign in these circumstances would "depend on the deal negotiated".
Mr Corbyn has previously said he would consult the unions before making any shift in Labour policy.
The shadow cabinet is due to meet at 10:00 BST.
Deputy leader Tom Watson and other leading figures have called for an unambiguously pro-Remain stance amid criticism that confusion over Labour's message contributed to its poor performance in the recent European parliament elections.
But MPs from Leave areas of the UK have warned it could damage the party's election performance.
On Monday, Mr Watson welcomed the agreement by the bosses of Labour's five-biggest affiliated unions as a "step in the right direction", but said his party should not be supporting any form of Brexit.
In a document seen by the BBC, Unite, Unison, the GMB, CWU and Usdaw appear to have moved towards the position advocated by Mr Watson and others by saying that "Remain" should be an option on the ballot paper, and Labour should campaign for it.
In the event of a snap election and a Labour victory, they would expect the new government to negotiate a deal to leave the EU - a position favoured by the Unite union.
However, the deal should be put to a confirmatory vote - a position favoured by Unison and the GMB - and in this scenario "Remain" should also be an option on the ballot paper.
Mr Corbyn has previously said he would be prepared to back a referendum on any Brexit deal put to Parliament.
Mr Corbyn has not guaranteed either to campaign for the UK to stay in the EU or confirmed that this would even be an option on the ballot paper.
The Conservatives said Labour had "no interest in delivering on the referendum result" of 2016.
"Labour promised to respect the Brexit vote, but rerunning the referendum and backing remain would be an attempt to frustrate Brexit and ignore the democratic mandate to deliver it," a spokesman said.
Analysis by Iain Watson
Brexit is the fourth item on the shadow cabinet agenda, but it's likely to dominate the discussion.
Jeremy Corbyn has been under huge pressure to change position on Brexit following a poor result in the European elections.
The unions' call for the party to campaign to remain if a referendum is foisted on a new Conservative leader stands a good chance of gaining shadow cabinet support - even though some MPs in Leave areas won't like it.
But the unions' position on what happens in the event of snap election could prove more problematic.
If Labour were to win, then the unions say an incoming government should negotiate its own Brexit deal.
But the party's deputy leader Tom Watson has said that not even a Labour deal would be as good as Remain.
And the proposal to put any Labour-brokered agreement to a referendum has also raised eyebrows amongst some MPs.
The prominent leave campaigner, Kate Hoey called it "utterly stupid", while some anti-Brexit Labour politicians want guarantees that they could campaign against their own party's deal without being suspended or expelled.
As it was founded by the unions to represent the interests of working-class people, Labour's link with the unions has always been a defining characteristic of the party.
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
What, you don't think the Tories don't consult big business? Labour are the political wing of the union movement, just as the Tories are the political wing of big business. More Scara Double Think.
Business is relevant to this century. Unions..... they haven't been relevant since the 70s.
Yet the only time they've been in power in the lifetimes of more than half of our population was when they listened to business and ignored the unions.
even if you accept Unions had no impact on New labour policy (minimum wage etc.) what's that got to do with anything? outside of 97 -2010 they always consulted with unions.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Could be the wording of the piece, but that sounds much more like "lead by" than "consulted by"...
It clearly shows little public appetite for a union-led government.
The Overton Window has shifted, the world is a different place. We need political parties to be run by unions about as much as we need political parties to pay attention to the needs of audio cassette manufacturers.
"Against No Deal or a damaging Tory Brexit" - that sounds like politician speak to me.
Doesn't guarantee it in all cases, just if they don't get their own way. "We will back you in what you want if what you want gets in the way of them getting what they want" - what an offer that is to the electorate.
Since 2010 labour have got closer to the unions and won more seats, even with the worst leader in history tm. Not a majority sure but doesn't support your picture of the world.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Im curious as to what a "damaging Tory Brexit" actually is.
I think its obvious no matter what the Brexit there is some "damage" no matter what.
The though question is not "what is the short term hit" but "what is the long term benefit".
"damaging Tory Brexit" just sounds like a catch all flimflam term to me, without any actual meaning.
I think its obvious no matter what the Brexit there is some "damage" no matter what.
The though question is not "what is the short term hit" but "what is the long term benefit".
"damaging Tory Brexit" just sounds like a catch all flimflam term to me, without any actual meaning.
He has discussed it many times and its in their manifesto, in short:
"A Conservative Brexit will weaken workers’ rights, deregulate the economy, slash corporate taxes, sideline Parliament and democratic accountability, and cut Britain off from our closest allies and most important trading partners."
It is now a buzz word/ catchall as its already been defined what he thinks will be damaging.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Half of that looks like flimflam to me. Fair play though I hadnt seen the definition before.
Populism, pure and simple. It's the same mechanism by which Donald Trump isn't laughed off of the ticket in the US.
Corbyn gets the anti-establishment vote because he's seen as being outside the system. Problem is, the system has evolved because it works and it (mainly) keeps the cranks out.