Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[glasgowspur]

You've got to do something. People shouldnt be dominating a society because their great grandad x10 fought at the Battle of Hastings and got given spoils. Or worse - they are their heirs of slavers, like most large landowners. Multi-generational land amassing is a very bad thing

Which is a very, very small amount of people.

 

[Kompakted]

With respect, aren't you the parody?

I don't know. Maybe I am?

 

[Mikey10]

Which is a very, very small amount of people.

One of the biggest issues with the UK is that an increasingly small number of people have much of the wealth and power.

 

[Kompakted]

One of the biggest issues with the UK is that an increasingly small number of people have much of the wealth and power.

Yes and you give them that power by increasingly taxing the wealthy and big business. Around 30% of the government's income tax take now comes from the top 5% of wealthiest individuals in the UK. It's one of the ironies of the so-called "fairer taxation" often called for by certain quarters. If all of your NHS funding is reliant on "the wealthy", the wealthy suddenly have an awful lot of lobbying power over government

 

[glasgowspur]

One of the biggest issues with the UK is that an increasingly small number of people have much of the wealth and power.

Isn't that the same the world over?

 

[Baleforce]

The school that I teach in has banned them during the school day from September just past; the pupils have adapted pretty quickly, to be honest, and we’ve already seen some positive changes in behaviour.

My kid’s school has been phone free for at least 3 years.

 

[Mikey10]

Isn't that the same the world over?

Yip. And it’s got a lot worse in the last 20 years.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Which is a very, very small amount of people.

Hopefully the same 4% who now have to pay a bit fairer inheritance tax on their estates

 

[richie_spur]

I agreed. But there is an uncomfortable truth that also needs addressing: parents are the greatest problem. Kids copy. And if parents are on their phones all the time, what can we expect?

Not just on them. How many parents set up the kids' phones or let their kids do it and lie about their date of birth to allow access to potentially inappropriate apps and content?

 

[SkipRat]

The financial services sector formed around London being a major trading hub, not the other way around. London has been the centre of British economy since Roman times.

A lot is made about the financial services sector in the UK, but it's really about our excellence in International trade in general, not just finance, but our world leading accounting and legal sectors.

That's why they were never going to be able to move the majority of euro clearing work away from London after Brexit without destroying the euro as a global currency. It is quite simple, if a transaction is cleared in London, the transaction is carried out in English law. Lots of major trade and finance centres around the world are English law jurisdictions. The accounting is done by a UK accountancy firm. If there's a dispute, it will be settled in an English court.

If you're an American, Japanese, Chinese, Indian, Brazilian business conducting a euro-denominated transaction, do you want that transaction to be dealt with in French or German and governed by notoriously bat-brick French courts, or an obscure and complex federal legal.system in Germany you aren't familiar with? Or do you want everything in English, governed by a law you're familiar with, under the jurisdiction of reliable English courts? To the present day its still (post-Brexit) a no-brainer.

As to the "finance jobs" and the "something else going on" you're alluding to, most articles and analysis written by "remainers" focus on one half of a consequence of Brexit: which is the end of *passporting*. I.e. British banks and FS companies can no longer use an FCA licence to service continental European customers. They've had to become regulated in an EU jurisdiction and that means establishing lots of head office functions in an EU state. It is these figures that people quote when they talk about "finance jobs lost to the UK". But you see none of these jobs are, in fact, "lost" for the most part, because that would assume all of these finance companies in the UK that wanted to continue servicing continental Europe did not want to remain authorised to service the UK market. The more accurate picture is that these jobs were brand new jobs created in Europe due to Brexit. What these analysts never mention is the flip side: that every European finance company servicing the UK had to become authorised and regulated over here to continue doing so, which they all did. They had to set up UK registered companies, create a head office and servicing function in the UK and move a tonne of regulatory capital over to the UK. Jobs were created in the UK financial sector on an industrial scale due to Brexit. And in fact, as per that mayor of City of London's analysis and the chart I've posted, the financial services sector in the UK has experienced rapid growth since Brexit.

Just to let you know, I voted to leave the EU.

My issue with the financial sector has nothing to do with Brexit, but everything to do with how everything is geared towards fleecing the rest of the UK for the sake of a minority of people at the very top.

In fact, this very financial based economy that brought about Brexit. Pandering to billionaire Nom Dom's and property investors, driving property prices through the roof...

I am not against people making money, but for me, it is how and pay their fair share.

Which is why I am disgusted at Labours budget. It does nothing for the poor people and low earners...

 

[thfcsteff]

Just to let you know, I voted to leave the EU.

My issue with the financial sector has nothing to do with Brexit, but everything to do with how everything is geared towards fleecing the rest of the UK for the sake of a minority of people at the very top.

In fact, this very financial based economy that brought about Brexit. Pandering to billionaire Nom Dom's and property investors, driving property prices through the roof...

I am not against people making money, but for me, it is how and pay their fair share.

Which is why I am disgusted at Labours budget. It does nothing for the poor people and low earners...

Exactly. Scandinavian capitalism (to be lazy here!) is reflective of what I believe in. If you make loads of money, fine, but let's make sure society in general looks after itself and all it's people regardless of income level!

 

[SkipRat]

Exactly. Scandinavian capitalism (to be lazy here!) is reflective of what I believe in. If you make loads of money, fine, but let's make sure society in general looks after itself and all it's people regardless of income level!

Spot on.

Exactly how I feel.

 

[Kompakted]

Just to let you know, I voted to leave the EU.

My issue with the financial sector has nothing to do with Brexit, but everything to do with how everything is geared towards fleecing the rest of the UK for the sake of a minority of people at the very top.

In fact, this very financial based economy that brought about Brexit. Pandering to billionaire Nom Dom's and property investors, driving property prices through the roof...

I am not against people making money, but for me, it is how and pay their fair share.

Which is why I am disgusted at Labours budget. It does nothing for the poor people and low earners...

How does the UK's financial services sector "fleece the rest of the UK for the sake of a minority of people at the very top"?

If I take a REIT fund for example, which I'm guessing *could* be something that grinds your gears (everyone knows fund managers eat babies for dinner after all), this is a real-estate investment fund, which is invested in a trust company that in turn invests in properties. The primary investors in many REITs these days are institutional, i.e. pension funds. So even if I scrabble about to find the financial product or service that would trigger your comments the most, actually many of the end beneficiaries are you, me and the common people when we retire....

Maybe you could give me the examples from your perspective?

 

[Rorschach]

Isn't that the same the world over?

Yes it is. We are in a modern version of the gilded age now.

There is plausible talk of the US default because the current debt ceiling only runs up to Jan 3rd and there may be all sorts of brick going on at that point. This is what the tech broligarchs are hoping for.
We need to tax billionaires out of existance.

 

[Kompakted]

Exactly. Scandinavian capitalism (to be lazy here!) is reflective of what I believe in. If you make loads of money, fine, but let's make sure society in general looks after itself and all it's people regardless of income level!

You do realise that "Scandinavian capitalism" is simply the net effect of the same capitalism applied here being appliec to populations that are a fraction of the size of the UK's?

When I have a population around half the population of London, it's far easier to invest more in each individual person.

I can build one large ultra-modern hospital and instantly cater for the health needs of a statistically significant proportion of my people...

A hospital is a huge investment but building one of them in the UK would have a negligible impact on people's healthcare in this country, as it would improve care for an insignificant proportion of people.

Population size is linked by multiple studies to living standards and poverty.

 

[thfcsteff]

You do realise that "Scandinavian capitalism" is simply the net effect of the same capitalism applied here being appliec to populations that are a fraction of the size of the UK's?

When I have a population around half the population of London, it's far easier to invest more in each individual person.

I can build one large ultra-modern hospital and instantly cater for the health needs of a statistically significant proportion of my people...

A hospital is a huge investment but building one of them in the UK would have a negligible impact on people's healthcare in this country, as it would improve care for an insignificant proportion of people.

Population size is linked by multiple studies to living standards and poverty.

Let me counter that by asking if you realise that there are other avenues to achieve the 'net effect' of 'Scandinavian capitalism' beyond linking their success to 'population size' when it is clear that there is a societal belief and attitude in their system?

The basic difference in the model, is that Denmark (as an example) believes that all its citizens have equal access to the sort of services which underpin a society (education, healthcare, housing) as part of a belief in there being a universal right to these regardless of their social or fiscal situations. There is a collective buy-in, not only on that belief, but also on the fact that society benefits when this is the model. IF that is the prevailing attitude behind a society's approach, I'd counter that whether you have 10 or 100 million people, the model can be scaled to work. It's about investing in a society, not an individual.

The biggest difference is that somewhere along the line (most probably the Thatcher era) the whole concept of social services somehow became semi-stigmatised (via avenues ranging from 'encouraging laziness' to a projection of it almost being a 'shameful' thing in some instances).

...with regards to your hospital analogy, my thought is that if we stopped paying bricky second-party contractors to execute important services, and if we encouraged and educated people about the necessity of preventative care from an early age, then you wouldn't need such reactive (and potentially over-expensive, open to abusive costs) hospital care.

Long conversation.

 

[SkipRat]

How does the UK's financial services sector "fleece the rest of the UK for the sake of a minority of people at the very top"?

If I take a REIT fund for example, which I'm guessing *could* be something that grinds your gears (everyone knows fund managers eat babies for dinner after all), this is a real-estate investment fund, which is invested in a trust company that in turn invests in properties. The primary investors in many REITs these days are institutional, i.e. pension funds. So even if I scrabble about to find the financial product or service that would trigger your comments the most, actually many of the end beneficiaries are you, me and the common people when we retire....

Maybe you could give me the examples from your perspective?

2008 crash when the people of the UK had to pay for the mistakes of investment bankers through austerity.

And biggest ever transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich through Quantitive Easing to sum offover £500 billion, to bailout the banks and fund investment, that never happened... When really that money should have been used to fund infrastructure projects up and down the country.

And then there is transfers of money between the banks, with each taking a small % each time it was transferred, can't remember the term is, but the EU were threatening to tax these transfers and the banks were crying.

So yeah fleecing us, because we have to pay for the mistakes of investment banks.

Not to mention we live in a debt based consumer society, where people are deliberately squeezed in order to push credit in order to buy stuff.

Who then charge massive interest on credit cards and loans.

Its all about sucking as much from us as possible.

Oh I'm benefit of this housing market investment? Where my rent is double that of social housing for the same sized home.

I feel so enriched.

 

[markysimmo]

i think years from now, maybe 5 or more they will realise how bad phones are in schools etc and something will need to be done. got no problem with my son having a brick phone, but smart phones for boys and girls under 16 will be absolute poison.

My eldest who is 15 says most of her class are on their phones during every lesson of the school day
I just don't get it, how can they be learning if they are all on tik tok etc

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

How does the UK's financial services sector "fleece the rest of the UK for the sake of a minority of people at the very top"?

If I take a REIT fund for example, which I'm guessing *could* be something that grinds your gears (everyone knows fund managers eat babies for dinner after all), this is a real-estate investment fund, which is invested in a trust company that in turn invests in properties. The primary investors in many REITs these days are institutional, i.e. pension funds. So even if I scrabble about to find the financial product or service that would trigger your comments the most, actually many of the end beneficiaries are you, me and the common people when we retire....

Maybe you could give me the examples from your perspective?

The main reason the public gets 'fleeced' by financial institutions is a lack of education. It's a crime it's not a big part of the curriculum. And imo that's on purpose.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I was having a beer with my old sociology lecturer the other week as he is a good mate of mine now and he is Spurs, we had abit of an extended chat about this (so bear with me hahaha), started off about kids and young adults consuming their life choices through social media more and more, one major reason there is a decline in having kids is because kids are seeing experiences promoted by influencers like travel and food and they are actively choosing experiences in life over families.

Anyway to fastforward the point was people are clearly consuming their data and heroes through the net now. People are making their moves through the internet with great influence, Tate, Rogan, Robinson (in Robinson case to crown men) so we are at a peak of "Personality Culting" (love that BTW) and its on steroids with social media.

Indeed!
In terms of unregulated -indeed, actively promoted!- 'weapons', smart phones have to be among the biggest our society has ever seen. Just like weapons, without education and awareness, they remain dangerous. How many people do we know who think they 'consume' news when they are actually 'consuming' opinions? And that's the tip of the iceberg.

i think years from now, maybe 5 or more they will realise how bad phones are in schools etc and something will need to be done. got no problem with my son having a brick phone, but smart phones for boys and girls under 16 will be absolute poison.

Smartphones ain't the problem. Social media is the problem. Remove tik Tok, Instagram, Snapchat, YouTube shorts, Facebook etc from said phones and 95% of the problems/issues disappear. (Probably for adults as well)

But (as Steff states) the genie is out the bottle, and we are off to a terrible start.
That's because it's unregulated, untested, unmanaged and uncensored. It's nothing short of a unplanned experiment.

There are 4 problems we are facing.
1. Brain development. This 'tool' and this behavior have potential to cause multiple ongoing issues during the adolescent/teenage growth phase of the brain.
2. Addictive behavior. Its on their mind ALL the fudging time. It's no different to a hard drug...their mind has been hacked to chase it and consume it.
3. Externalization of everything (this one is for the adults as well). It doesn't allow for introspection, sitting doing nothing, looking out a window, pondering. There no off switch. The external world becomes your whole life..it's projected onto you, constantly. Your inner being is what make you, that needs attention and a little work from time to time...but in this world, there is no room for that
4. . Sadly the Internet being 'free' means it has to be paid for somehow. Advertising is the paymaster. Clicks/engagement rules. You are the product those clicks/engagements need. So be it influencers/YouTube grifters/SM click bait/MSM click bait (if you can't beat them join them lol)...it's, in the main, driven by earning money. Very little care, sincerity, professionalism, skill or worrying about outcomes. No one really cares about what they've delivered/uploaded/posted, it's all about numbers.
And boy, are these channels giving a steroid boost to a load of worthless consumerism.
It's probably nigh on impossible to breakaway from this model now, and on many levels we are going to suffer the consequences.

Luckily? We adults have a trace, a line back to how things were, it's hard to gauge the mind of someone that doesn't have that comparative avenue.They have no experience of a different way.