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Players Released

I read that as GB talking about a slightly longer term squad planning perspective.

With a now seemingly very functional academy producing very talented players, and a tech director/DoF bringing in some very talented players from abroad I think that's a very important perspective. Essentially allowing a path into the first team for those talented players and not over stocking on players in positions where we have big talents coming through.

4 first team centre backs seems just about right like you say, when none of them have significant injury problems to talk of. We have a mix of experience and youth and a mix of physicality and mobility in the Fazio, Vertonghen, Dier and Wimmer quartet. Not sure if Veljkovic will make good on his ambition to be involved in the first team next season, but if so he's at least a decent emergency 5th choice backup (along with Davies etc) if it comes to that.

If Carter-Vickers fulfills his potential he might very well need at least 2-3 years to be in contention for a first team spot. Around the age where Fazio and Vertonghen will be getting into their thirties and Dier and Wimmer will be more experienced and hopefully ready to take on that more senior role. That nicely opens up a path into the first team for someone like Carter-Vickers, or perhaps Veljkovic (still unsure what his role will be if he makes it).

Seems like a good composition of centre backs. Of course if a very good upgrade on one of those 4 can be found we can't sit on our hands waiting for Carter-Vickers to come through, but that would probably mean selling one of the current 4 senior centre backs at the club or leave ourselves a bit on the crowded side.

That's a noble enough endeavor, if we're sure the youth players we're making way for are good enough to occupy the places we've seemingly reserved for them. However, of our current crop, I don't see many ready to make the jump into the first team right away, and generally even when they are ready (I believe Pritchard definitely is, for example), my view is that the place for these youngsters should be behind our first eleven (on the bench or in the 25) with their brief being to show enough in training to make the step up when a first-teamer gets injured or loses form.

For example, for now I see CCV as being a couple of good years away from being able to slot into the side, and concurrently, I can't see Jan staying for more than another season, with doubts over Fazio's longer-term future as well (again, I can't see him staying past, say, 2017): that's space that CCV (along with Veljkovic, for example) can move into, and is also why I'm not too crazy about signing another CB in the near-term. However, my view is that our youth players (CCV and Veljkovic, in this instance) should start at the bottom of the list when it comes to the pecking order our four CBs are arranged in (with the other two being Dier and Wimmer, presumably), moving up as an when the opportunity presents itself.

I feel that I do harbour disagreements with Gutter over this, since he seems a lot more gung-ho about throwing our lads into the first-team straight away, which for me would only send us careening backwards as a team and as a side ostensibly competing for things. No doubt, we've got talent at the back (Veljkovic in the short term, CCV and KWP in the slightly longer term) and in midfield (Onomah and Winks in the short-term, Yahaya, Azzaoui, that Serbian chap (Lazar?) and Edwards in the medium term) that I'd love to see work their way into the side. But crucially, they shouldn't be given a straight role into the first eleven/eighteen. Use them to replace the players on the fringes of the first team that we're planning to ship out (Stambouli, Capoue et al), or start them at the bottom of the list as our more established players leave (the gradual departure of Verts, Fazio, Eriksen, Chadli et al) but don't use it as an excuse to avoid signing players that would benefit the first eleven.
 
We agree Dubai, we agree! Hallelujah and saints preserve us.

NB. Just a secondary point though... when Kane and company couldn't get a Premier game whilst the "first teamers" were stinking up the place in Aug/Sept/Oct it was very frustrating, it took Poch AGES to realise that Capoue Kaboul Adebayor Paulinho were awful, going through the motions, no drive, no determination... soon Poch will get credit for bringing through the kids, but by GHod it took him weeks and weeks to figure out what was in front of his nose.
 
frustrating, yes but you learn more from 10 games than you do from changing things every 3 or 4.
 
We agree Dubai, we agree! Hallelujah and saints preserve us.

NB. Just a secondary point though... when Kane and company couldn't get a Premier game whilst the "first teamers" were stinking up the place in Aug/Sept/Oct it was very frustrating, it took Poch AGES to realise that Capoue Kaboul Adebayor Paulinho were awful, going through the motions, no drive, no determination... soon Poch will get credit for bringing through the kids, but by GHod it took him weeks and weeks to figure out what was in front of his nose.

gave the old guard a fair crack of the whip? its been good that he gave all players a chance. He should know what he needs now going forward and what he does not need. Second season coming up. So ill judge him more on this one than the last.
 
That's a noble enough endeavor, if we're sure the youth players we're making way for are good enough to occupy the places we've seemingly reserved for them. However, of our current crop, I don't see many ready to make the jump into the first team right away, and generally even when they are ready (I believe Pritchard definitely is, for example), my view is that the place for these youngsters should be behind our first eleven (on the bench or in the 25) with their brief being to show enough in training to make the step up when a first-teamer gets injured or loses form.

For example, for now I see CCV as being a couple of good years away from being able to slot into the side, and concurrently, I can't see Jan staying for more than another season, with doubts over Fazio's longer-term future as well (again, I can't see him staying past, say, 2017): that's space that CCV (along with Veljkovic, for example) can move into, and is also why I'm not too crazy about signing another CB in the near-term. However, my view is that our youth players (CCV and Veljkovic, in this instance) should start at the bottom of the list when it comes to the pecking order our four CBs are arranged in (with the other two being Dier and Wimmer, presumably), moving up as an when the opportunity presents itself.

I feel that I do harbour disagreements with Gutter over this, since he seems a lot more gung-ho about throwing our lads into the first-team straight away, which for me would only send us careening backwards as a team and as a side ostensibly competing for things. No doubt, we've got talent at the back (Veljkovic in the short term, CCV and KWP in the slightly longer term) and in midfield (Onomah and Winks in the short-term, Yahaya, Azzaoui, that Serbian chap (Lazar?) and Edwards in the medium term) that I'd love to see work their way into the side. But crucially, they shouldn't be given a straight role into the first eleven/eighteen. Use them to replace the players on the fringes of the first team that we're planning to ship out (Stambouli, Capoue et al), or start them at the bottom of the list as our more established players leave (the gradual departure of Verts, Fazio, Eriksen, Chadli et al) but don't use it as an excuse to avoid signing players that would benefit the first eleven.

I'm not sure we disagree on much at all here...

I just think giving our youth players a path into the first team is crucial for our youth policy to work. If not we end up like City/Chelsea with heavy spending on a youth level, but no real way for those players to become first team players.


frustrating, yes but you learn more from 10 games than you do from changing things every 3 or 4.

Spot on.
 
I'm not sure we disagree on much at all here...

I just think giving our youth players a path into the first team is crucial for our youth policy to work. If not we end up like City/Chelsea with heavy spending on a youth level, but no real way for those players to become first team players.

No, we don't disagree here mate (although we seemingly do on the Linetty transfer :p ). I suspect my gripe is more with Gutter's gung-ho youth policy than it is with anything you've pointed out.
 
Players on Premier League clubs’ released list

Arsenal


Semi Ajayi
Abou Diaby
Jack Jebb
Austin Lipman
Ryo Miyaichi
Brandon Ormonde-Ottewill
Josh Vickers

Aston Villa

Darren Bent
Graham Burke
Alfie Crooks
Christopher Herd
Craig Hill
Bradley Lewis
Isaac Nehemie
Daniel O’Brien
Enda Stevens
Thomas Strain
Ron Vlaar
Courtney Wildin

Burnley

Cameron Howieson
Steven Reid
Ross Wallace

Chelsea

Didier Drogba

Crystal Palace

Foluwashola Ameobi
Michael Chambers
Kyle De Silva
Stephen Dobbie
Owen Garvan
Brede Hangeland
Lewis Price
Peter Ramage
Ghassimu Sow
Jerome Thomas

Everton

Antolín Alcaraz
Sylvain Distin
George Green
Curtis Langton
John Lundstram
Ben McLaughlin

Hull City

Joseph Cracknell
Leon Dawson
Joseph Dudgeon
Maynor Figueroa
Stephen Harper
John Mahon
Jonathon Margetts
Eoghan McCawl
Paul McShane
Mark Oxley
Liam Rosenior
Yannick Sagbo
Sam Topliss

Leicester City

Zoumana Bakayogo
Marcel Barrington
Adam Dawson
Paul Gallagher
Kieran Kennedy
Conrad Logan
Herve Pepe-Ngoma
Louis Rowley
Gary Taylor-Fletcher
Matthew Upson

Liverpool

Steven Gerrard
Glen Johnson
Brad Jones
Jordan Lussey
Marc Pelosi

Emirates Marketing Project

Adam Drury
John Guidetti
Frank Lampard
Greg Leigh
Dominic Oduro
Micah Richards

Manchester United

Benjamin Amos
Tom Cleverley
Callum Evans
Ryan McConnell
Thomas Thorpe

Saudi Sportswashing Machine

Jak lnwick
Adam Campbell
Jonás Gutierrez
Remie Streete
Ryan Taylor

QPR

Bruno Andrade
Joey Barton
Richard Dunne
Rio Ferdinand
Jordan Gibbons
Karl Henry
Aaron Lennox
Brian Murphy
Jamie Sendles-White
Shaun Wright-Phillips
Bobby Zamora

Southampton

Artur Boruc
Cody Cropper
Jos Hooiveld
Chris Johns
Omar Rowe
Jake Sinclair

Stoke City

Oluwatomisin Adeloye
James Alabi
Sam Coulson
Alex Grant
Wilson Palacios
Robbie Parry
Nathan Ricketts-Hopkinson
Thomas Sorensen
Adam Thomas
Charlie Ward
Elliot Wheeler
Andrew Wilkinson

Sunderland

Wes Brown
Peter Burke
Andrew Cartwright
Joel Dixon
Tom McNamee
Anthony Reveillere

Swansea City

Thomas Atyeo
David Cornell
Rory Donnelly
Corey Francis
Giancarlo Gallifuoco
Joseph Jones
Kurtis March
Curtis Obeng
Gareth Owen
Scott Tanrooster
Alan Tate
Gerhard Tremmel

Tottenham Hotspur

Jordan Archer
Cristian Ceballos
Brad Friedel
Bongani Khumalo
Aaron McEneff
Alexander McQueen
Jonathan Miles

West Bromwich Albion

Wesley Atkinson
Christopher Baird
Aaron Birch
Jason Davidson
Bradley Garmston
Alexander Jones
Gareth McAuley
Youssouf Mulumbu
Mani O’Sullivan

West Ham United

Kieran Bywater
Carlton Cole
Nenê
Guy Demel
Juusi Jaaskelainen
Sean Maguire
Paul McCallum
Daniel Potts

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/...clubs-submit-retained-and-released-lists.html
 
3 is fine. McGee is supposed to be good too.

We also have 3 GKs in the academy - Voss, Glover and McDermott

Shouldn't we be able to call in an emergency keeper as well, if both Lloris and Vorm are injured? I seem to remember City doing that twice. So yeah, no big shakes.
 
While we're waiting for the full list of retained players, Sunderland have confirmed Steven Fletcher, Wes Brown, Danny Graham and Steve Harper will all leave the club. Kolo Toure looks set for a Liverpool exit as well.
 
While we're waiting for the full list of retained players, Sunderland have confirmed Steven Fletcher, Wes Brown, Danny Graham and Steve Harper will all leave the club. Kolo Toure looks set for a Liverpool exit as well.

If only old Saggy Face was in management now....he'd snap most of them up
 
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