In an ideal world everyone would just get on with it but sadly that's never gonna happen.
If people want to believe in religion that's their choice.
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Paris
- Thread starter monkeybarry
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In an ideal world everyone would just get on with it but sadly that's never gonna happen.
If people want to believe in religion that's their choice.
True but you can be a Christian and not tell the world about it. It might mean you're not following it to the letter but so what they times change.
I agree. Obviously they're banned from indoctrinating their children, right?
Absolutely I don't agree with enforcing anything on your children unless its supporting THFC of course!
In which case religion will be gone in a generation. Good plan.
Well it's certainly phasing out as we evolve yes but you've only got ta look to the schools there. Religion isn't being taught like it was for fear of offending people. Total bollox. If you go to a CofE school, whether you want to or not, you're taught about the bible to hell with who it offends.
Religion will always be there though whether we accept it or not.
Not if parents are banned from indoctrinating their kids.
Very, very few people just decide to start believing in something like a deity - that kind of stuff needs brainwashing in.
Ban the indoctrination and religion will be gone.
Like you mate I was forced into Sunday school. My mum isn't even particularly religious she just wanted me to go along for the social side. I enjoyed the table tennis but not the hymns.
Went to a CofE primary and secondary school where hymns, Eucharists and praying was done almost daily.
Now I believe in the bible. Shoot me down call me what you want. I don't make it known or talk about and certainly wouldn't encourage my son to follow with my beliefs. I tell you what though when I got the diagnosis I prayed almost every night.
It made me feel better.
I don't expect you to understand just saying that is how religion, whether it exists or not, should be. Private.
IMO. Get rid of churches, mosques, synagogues whatever else they're outdated too IMO.
Would you have found religion without that background do you think?
I find it hard to imagine a child without any external influence asking to go to Sunday School. I also find it hard to imagine an adult simply deciding one day to begin attending church - other than one turning up at a moment of crisis and having a priest prey upon them as they tend to do.
monkeybarry
Ian Walker
You can also do that as a Muslim - and many do.
Certainly in Britain I would say Christians ( and especially Jehavohs Witnesses) are far more conspicuous in their "spreading of the word"
Baleforce
Martin Peters
nobody ever has taken to religion through personal choice, until you become an attempted target of indoctrination you won't have heard of it
schools should have a religious ed track, like sex ed, this is what can happen if you don't use a condom, this is what can happen if you don't insist on scientific evidence of magical occurrences and logic based reasoning
schools should have a religious ed track, like sex ed, this is what can happen if you don't use a condom, this is what can happen if you don't insist on scientific evidence of magical occurrences and logic based reasoning
If I hadn't been sent to Sunday school I'd've found it in primary school. Only way to eradicate it then is to totally ban religion in schools.
It is - other than in specialist faith schools (again, external indoctrination).
That said, there are some pretty shady practices in secular schools that people use to try and spread their brand of brainwashing to kids - like inviting the Jesus bus in as "external consultants"
milo
Jack L. Jones
I haven't attended an RE lesson in a long time, so I am not best placed to comment on the curriculum but I would argue that there has never been more religion in schools than there is now. The Blair government's faith school programme saw a huge growth in them and Gove's academy policy continued that. It was completely wrong was to go in my opinion.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
I think you need a bit of both. Mature rational critical thinking, but also more emotional and humorous criticism. The problem is that for many religion is the one topic where this is seen as blasphemy and somehow subhuman.
What would we think if people said not to insult/ridicule communists because the extremists might use that in their recruitment? What would people think if someone said not to make fun of neo-nazis because their violent groups could use that in their recruitment? I think they would be laughed out of any serious conversation, of course we're not going to bend to that kind of pressure. But with religion the perceived offense of "blasphemy" from the non-religious or people of other faiths is somehow still seen as a reason not to criticise by way to many.
There are voices "within Islam" willing to criticise and willing to suffer death threats as a consequence. Are we on the outside not going to mirror their voices? Of course when these voices within Islam make a move all the way into atheism they're no longer "inside voices" for the religion, but culturally I think they still are voices from within at least part of a group. Are we on the outside not going to support them? Can we support them without being insulting? In Norway Rushdie's publisher supported Rushdie at least to some extent - by publishing his book. This was seen as insulting enough that he got shot (and luckily survived).
If anything I think outside voices are needed because insults are actually jugded much harsher when from someone in your in-group. Why Rushdie got death threaths where perhaps a non-Muslim would have "gotten away with it". Many of those voices are scared though. There's still a fear of being labeled an apostate, a very legitimate fear by the way. I think these people need our support.
Of course. And you don't see me stopping people on the street asking if they're made the journey to atheism yet. Or knocking on their doors sticking flyers about Sam Harris books on their doors if they don't answer. You don't hear atheists telling dying people that they can convert now at the end and at least die without these misconceptions. We very much leave that kind of behaviour to the religious.
But if someone makes claims about religions in public. Or try to convince others to join their religion. Or if someone seeks out a discussion on religion with atheism as part of the topic... Then there will usually be atheists there more than willing to take up the debate.
I usually turn off my tv if religious programming comes on. I assume it's not for me. I don't think you get many atheists writing tv-stations about the perceived insult to our lack of faith. I think we should be able to expect the same level of respect from the religious when our opinions are voiced in appropriate ways.
I agree that religion will probably always be there. But it's influence can be minimized.
We know that how we think influences how we act. It's naive to think that a system of thought as complex, persuasive and dominating as religion doesn't influence how people act towards others. Take the more recent gay right movements. Their opposition has been to a great extent religious. And if you definite "moderate" as the large group in the middle with "average" opinions there have been a lot of moderate resistance to this (imo) very clearly good social movement towards progress. This religious opposition to social progress has been present at every stage of social progress in the last centuries from what I know. Even though most religious people are good, kind people. It's one of the powers of religion and group thinking. And part of why I think religion should be actively opposed. Religion makes good people do horrible things.
Well. Religions have spawned in just about every culture we know of throughout history. We know that we're dying and we're afraid of it. We've understood very little about how the world around us works in the past and we've looked for explanations. Place a group of children on an isolated island and in addition to being rightly tried for child abuse I think you'll probably see a religion created sooner or later even without any outside influence.
You're right of course that the indoctrination of children plays a huge part in the continued success of religious ideas. And you're very much right about the lack of critical thinking in schools.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
The difference between religion and mythology is only a distance in space and time.
I remember reading Homer's Illiad and Oddyssey some years back, and I remember it struck me that "these people actually believed in this". Perhaps if I was smarter it wouldn't have struck me as much as it seems bleeding obvious in hindsight...
But to some comparing modern religious beliefs with mythology can be seen both as offensive and as ridicule.
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
Prett good from Peter Hitchens - http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co...-to-beat-terror-then-calm-down-and-think.html
I apologise for the Daily Mail link
I apologise for the Daily Mail link
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milo
Jack L. Jones
I cannot believe that you brought the bad Hitchens into this thread @LutonSpurs - Blasphemer! 
braineclipse
Willie Hall
Surprisingly good...
Been saying all along that I hope the French respond smarter than the US, I think they will.
I just hope it's not a call for going back to the "good old days" of control over countries by controlling who their leaders are and make sure whatever dictator in charge is our ally. I think that's been a huge part of the problem.
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LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
I cannot believe that you brought the bad Hitchens into this thread @LutonSpurs - Blasphemer!
I had to do a pennance after promoting anything by him but it was such a good read that i decided sinning is ok on this occasion...