Our high line

[Modric THFC]

Cost AVB 2 jobs.
Why did he have to be such a ****ing fundamentalist.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Anyone know which almost 100% identical game I am talking about here? In putting five past us Liverpool employed two simple strategies. First they absolutely tore into us with a frenzy from the off, kicking at our heels and making sure we had no time to settle on the ball. Secondly, once in possession, they lobbed the ball over our high back line for their forwards to race into the wide open spaces and attack our goal at will to complete a 5-0 rout.

Over to you.

 

[Spursalot]

This thread is odd.


I agree that the large defeats are not acceptable, however the high line is also responsible for the majority of the clean sheets we have had this season. In fact the three defeats by West Ham, Liverpool and City are the anomaly, rather than the norm.


I would hope we continue to see the high line employed, because that is what we have been training in. It just needs a little tweaking from time to time when the personnel change.

 

[Mumorn]

Cost AVB 2 jobs.
Why did he have to be such a ****ing fundamentalist.

Playing **** like Terry and Dawson in high lines seems to have cost him 2 jobs.

 

[Jurgen the German]

This thread is odd.


I agree that the large defeats are not acceptable, however the high line is also responsible for the majority of the clean sheets we have had this season. In fact the three defeats by West Ham, Liverpool and City are the anomaly, rather than the norm.


I would hope we continue to see the high line employed, because that is what we have been training in. It just needs a little tweaking from time to time when the personnel change.

But what if the personnel doesn't fit the high line? Playing John Terry at Chelsea and Michael Dawson at Spurs in a team that plays a high line is bordering on the ridiculous. Dawson clearly isn't very good when people run at him and he has no pace to recover if a player goes past him. Lloris has bailed us out of so many situations over the season and a bit he's been in goal.

 

[Mumorn]

But what if the personnel doesn't fit the high line? Playing John Terry at Chelsea and Michael Dawson at Spurs in a team that plays a high line is bordering on the ridiculous. Dawson clearly isn't very good when people run at him and he has no pace to recover if a player goes past him. Lloris has bailed us out of so many situations over the season and a bit he's been in goal.

but surely AVB knows this? We all saw what happened when he played Terry in the high line, he was **** so AVB dropped him. BACKLASH.

Maybe he thought the same would happen at Spurs? There were a few quite against AVB trying to get rid of Dawson at the beginning of his tenure. Maybe he thought if he dropped the club captain and fan favourite in Michael Dawson he would receive something similar from the fans? Dawson must be the worst suited player for the high line in our whole squad, yet he played him there. AVB isn't an idiot.

 

[Spursalot]

But what if the personnel doesn't fit the high line? Playing John Terry at Chelsea and Michael Dawson at Spurs in a team that plays a high line is bordering on the ridiculous. Dawson clearly isn't very good when people run at him and he has no pace to recover if a player goes past him. Lloris has bailed us out of so many situations over the season and a bit he's been in goal.

Thing is, Michael Dawson played perfectly well in the high line at the start of the season, why suddenly can he not do it?


It's not bailing us out if he's played as a sweeper keeper, that's his job. In fact if he wasn't played as a sweeper behind a high line i'd be a little disappointed in Lloris, as the rest of his play isn't actually that impressive.

 

[Jurgen the German]

but surely AVB knows this? We all saw what happened when he played Terry in the high line, he was **** so AVB dropped him. BACKLASH.

Maybe he thought the same would happen at Spurs? There were a few quite against AVB trying to get rid of Dawson at the beginning of his tenure. Maybe he thought if he dropped the club captain and fan favourite in Michael Dawson he would receive something similar from the fans? Dawson must be the worst suited player for the high line in our whole squad, yet he played him there. AVB isn't an idiot.

So surely the logical thing would have been to buy some defenders with pace who don't get exposed so often then? I don't get it, we keep Dawson who loves the club but sadly has had one season too many at the club and Kaboul who is perpetually injured and sell Caulker who was good from set pieces (another thing we struggle with) and was quicker than Dawson.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Thing is, Michael Dawson played perfectly well in the high line at the start of the season, why suddenly can he not do it?


It's not bailing us out if he's played as a sweeper keeper, that's his job. In fact if he wasn't played as a sweeper behind a high line i'd be a little disappointed in Lloris, as the rest of his play isn't actually that impressive.

Because he's not good enough to be able to do it consistently over a season unfortunately, even if he can do it for a few games here and there. Of course it's Lloris's job but he seems to be getting called upon to rush out from his area about 10 times a game.

 

[Mumorn]

So surely the logical thing would have been to buy some defenders with pace who don't get exposed so often then? I don't get it, we keep Dawson who loves the club but sadly has had one season too many at the club and Kaboul who is perpetually injured and sell Caulker who was good from set pieces (another thing we struggle with) and was quicker than Dawson.

I just think in the eyes of some, Dawson is undroppable. Now, I'm not saying Levy has THAT much of a say in who starts, but the only reason Dawson gets games is his "heart on his sleeve" bull****. I refuse to believe AVB has done a complete 180 and decided Dawson is his man after wanting him gone from the start.

 

[Spursalot]

Because he's not good enough to be able to do it consistently over a season unfortunately, even if he can do it for a few games here and there. Of course it's Lloris's job but he seems to be getting called upon to rush out from his area about 10 times a game.

Yes, because it's his job as a sweeper keeper. That's like complaining that your centre backs have to tackle the opposition.


It's part of their role. You play to your strengths and that is Lloris strength.

 

[braineclipse]

Thing is, Michael Dawson played perfectly well in the high line at the start of the season, why suddenly can he not do it?


It's not bailing us out if he's played as a sweeper keeper, that's his job. In fact if he wasn't played as a sweeper behind a high line i'd be a little disappointed in Lloris, as the rest of his play isn't actually that impressive.

Agreed.

Barca played a high line with Pique and Puyol at the back, not exactly defenders you'd describe as "pacey", although certainly better along the ground than Dawson.

Coming back to it, the pressing is the key to making it work. The pressing is what's let us, and AVB, down.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Yes, because it's his job as a sweeper keeper. That's like complaining that your centre backs have to tackle the opposition.


It's part of their role. You play to your strengths and that is Lloris strength.

But if the opposition were getting through the midfield too easily and causing the defence problems because the defensive midfielders weren't performing adequately would you not ask questions of them? Of course there will always be times when teams get behind us, it was just happening far too frequently for my liking.

 

[Mumorn]

Agreed.

Barca played a high line with Pique and Puyol at the back, not exactly defenders you'd describe as "pacey", although certainly better along the ground than Dawson.

Coming back to it, the pressing is the key to making it work. The pressing is what's let us, and AVB, down.

Thing is, our pressing last year at times was exceptional.

What the **** happened?

 

[braineclipse]

Thing is, our pressing last year at times was exceptional.

What the **** happened?

I honestly cannot say. It was looking really good earlier this season too.

It's why I think in the end the decision to part ways with AVB seems reasonable. There were problems that had to be overcome, most of us though that could be done, but when the things that were already in place so to speak also started falling apart whilst the problem areas remained unsolved it's difficult to give the manager more time.

 

[Spursalot]

But if the opposition were getting through the midfield too easily and causing the defence problems because the defensive midfielders weren't performing adequately would you not ask questions of them? Of course there will always be times when teams get behind us, it was just happening far too frequently for my liking.

Might just end on a personal choice really, i like the idea of a high line because it's an attacking move.


Take out the losses to City and 'Pool and i think our defence has performed pretty solidly this season. We need to perform better against the top teams, however that might also be something the players need to look at themselves about.

 

[Mumorn]

I honestly cannot say. It was looking really good earlier this season too.

It's why I think in the end the decision to part ways with AVB seems reasonable. There were problems that had to be overcome, most of us though that could be done, but when the things that were already in place so to speak also started falling apart whilst the problem areas remained unsolved it's difficult to give the manager more time.

AVB doesnt seem to strike me as someone who would shout at his team for not pressing as much too. Not like a Ferguson who in my opinion would probably absolutely pile into his players if they didnt work hard enough. Maybe that is where respect came in? I think a lot of players respected AVB as a person, I reckon he was a pretty cool guy but as a manager, I think the respect was lacking. I think if we had got him straight from Porto things may have been different.

 

[braineclipse]

AVB doesnt seem to strike me as someone who would shout at his team for not pressing as much too. Not like a Ferguson who in my opinion would probably absolutely pile into his players if they didnt work hard enough. Maybe that is where respect came in? I think a lot of players respected AVB as a person, I reckon he was a pretty cool guy but as a manager, I think the respect was lacking. I think if we had got him straight from Porto things may have been different.

Could be.

I tell you what though, I don't even think he would have to speak the language, one training session with Bielsa and all the players would know that only 100% effort would be good enough.

Have I mentioned that I want us to sign Bielsa? I might not have. I should probably look to bring it up in every thread...

 

[Modric THFC]

This thread is odd.


I agree that the large defeats are not acceptable, however the high line is also responsible for the majority of the clean sheets we have had this season. In fact the three defeats by West Ham, Liverpool and City are the anomaly, rather than the norm.


I would hope we continue to see the high line employed, because that is what we have been training in. It just needs a little tweaking from time to time when the personnel change.

You need to be able to change it when its not working during the game. AVB refused to do this repeatedly. Still having Dawson and Capoue playing up at the half way line when everyone could see what was going wrong because he believes in the high line was ridiculous. Its tactical fundamentalism!

 

[Mumorn]

Could be.

I tell you what though, I don't even think he would have to speak the language, one training session with Bielsa and all the players would know that only 100% effort would be good enough.

Have I mentioned that I want us to sign Bielsa? I might not have. I should probably look to bring it up in every thread...

I saw your Bielsa post, it was a great post. I mentioned Bielsa a few months ago!