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*** OMT UCL Tottenham Hotspur vs Villarreal ***

SteveAWOL said:
Yeah, rather like how a Serie A teams are now replete with players who couldn’t quite make the grade in EPL or are past their prime.

No wonder Villarreal have failed to score in 9 of their past 11 visits to England, hopefully our players will be back to their A game when we face Brighton.

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They are a solid side who would struggle in this league. The stats I saw didn’t include the Everton game as it was a qualifier
That’s fine
We won
We move on
I don’t think any plaudits should be given to anyone
Let’s hope we learn from it as a team
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
No team in the history of the professional game can say they have never lost, if losing is for losers (what a stupid epigram, must have been said by an American) every team are losers.
We all want to win and play well but no one should play any game if they can't accept defeat with some dignity.
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The point is not that we lose - as you say, every team loses - but it is the "we played well so it's ok" mentality that has permeated too long in our club. It's something I remember for the whole 50 years I have been a fan of this club. Yes - great teams lose but when they do, they don't say "we played well so it's ok"... they are fuming and determined to make sure they win their next game - even if it is through a deflection from their only shot on goal. Winning trumps everything. That is the sort of mentality we need to nurture!!
 
Mabspurs said:
The point is not that we lose - as you say, every team loses - but it is the "we played well so it's ok" mentality that has permeated too long in our club. It's something I remember for the whole 50 years I have been a fan of this club. Yes - great teams lose but when they do, they don't say "we played well so it's ok"... they are fuming and determined to make sure they win their next game - even if it is through a deflection from their only shot on goal. Winning trumps everything. That is the sort of mentality we need to nurture!!
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I certainly agree with having a winning mentality and believe we should set out to win every game, it's why I find most football boring as it appears to me most teams are playing to avoid defeat. I find the inane phrases like "must win game" "losing is for losers" "big club" "professional foul" etc. lazy comments thrown around.
 
Mabspurs said:
The point is not that we lose - as you say, every team loses - but it is the "we played well so it's ok" mentality that has permeated too long in our club. It's something I remember for the whole 50 years I have been a fan of this club. Yes - great teams lose but when they do, they don't say "we played well so it's ok"... they are fuming and determined to make sure they win their next game - even if it is through a deflection from their only shot on goal. Winning trumps everything. That is the sort of mentality we need to nurture!!
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I think there's multiple valid and useful perspectives to this.

On one hand what you say, what matters is winning and players and staff reaacting with frustration/anger/fuming and determined when they lose can be good and useful.

I also think that there's something to being able to grind out wins from not so good performances. That's how we ended up with the EL trophy. That's how we beat Villarreal. That's an important quality, one that can be a difference maker.

I also think that overall, over time, level of performance and results will correlate highly. There aren't teams that are able to just keep grinding out results despite not performing well enough over time.

I see opinions in the "we played well so it's OK" as an expression of the latter perspective there. And I think that's a good and useful opinion and perspective. Particularly for us as fans, but also for the players in addition to the other perspectives.

The great teams have that as you say, but the great teams also have a baseline of good to very good performances. Without those performances no change in attitude will be sufficient.
 
When a side score early, it often makes them a bit tame. Its a sign of us needing to develop: both a mentality and the playing structure. So regardless of the score, we have a secure way of playing. Did anyone think we'd be a polished side right out the box? After dramatically changing the way we play?

What Frank has focused on is ensuring we don't ship goals and we're hard to beat. So far so good.
 
SpurMeUp said:
When a side score early, it often makes them a bit tame. Its a sign of us needing to develop: both a mentality and the playing structure. So regardless of the score, we have a secure way of playing. Did anyone think we'd be a polished side right out the box? After dramatically changing the way we play?

What Frank has focused on is ensuring we don't ship goals and we're hard to beat. So far so good.
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Definitively don't expect us to be polished or consistently at/near our best.

Compared to our best under Frank this performance wasn't up there, but it also wasn't anywhere near as poor as against Bournemouth.
 
braineclipse said:
Definitively don't expect us to be polished or consistently at/near our best.

Compared to our best under Frank this performance wasn't up there, but it also wasn't anywhere near as poor as against Bournemouth.
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The Bournmouth game is an interesting comparison. As I thought first half that played out: Villarreal tried to replicate what Bournmouth did. And we were ready with improved movement of the ball, and we made a much better go of working the ball around their press.

Second half players, as players tired, it looked like both sides tried a different approach. We were trying to hit them on the break (didn't work and we were too far apart to make passes stick), and they weren't trying to press as much but were controlling possesion (partly as we'd just hand the ball back to them with a stray pass).
 
SpurMeUp said:
The Bournmouth game is an interesting comparison. As I thought first half that played out: Villarreal tried to replicate what Bournmouth did. And we were ready with improved movement of the ball, and we made a much better go of working the ball around their press.

Second half players, as players tired, it looked like both sides tried a different approach. We were trying to hit them on the break (didn't work and we were too far apart to make passes stick), and they weren't trying to press as much but were controlling possesion (partly as we'd just hand the ball back to them with a stray pass).
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Interesting. I saw it quite differently. Thought Villareal stood off us more in the first half, allowed our centre backs including Romero to be on the ball. Perhaps tried to funnel us down our left to some extent, but not as aggressively as Bournemouth.

Then I thought they pressed us higher from the start of the second half.

Just interesting how differently we can see the game, no surprise really when we're all caught up in the emotions of it.
 
TF has a lot to think about if he wants to progress to the knock out stage.

At least we've improved massively in defence.

I think the attack will come together and it will be a combination of kolo, kudus, solanke, simons and bergvall who will fit best with TF's style.

I much prefer Slow and steady progress than an emotional draining 3-steps-forwards-2-steps-back approach.

to boring football and clean sheets, the foundation of many wins!
 
braineclipse said:
Interesting. I saw it quite differently. Thought Villareal stood off us more in the first half, allowed our centre backs including Romero to be on the ball. Perhaps tried to funnel us down our left to some extent, but not as aggressively as Bournemouth.

Then I thought they pressed us higher from the start of the second half.

Just interesting how differently we can see the game, no surprise really when we're all caught up in the emotions of it.
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Okay yes, would need to watch it back. Was it us moving the ball quicker first half, or them giving us more time? For me, second half they seemed to let us have the ball along the back line. But who knows, I have a memory of a gold fish at the moment :tearsofjoy:
 
SpurMeUp said:
Okay yes, would need to watch it back. Was it us moving the ball quicker first half, or them giving us more time? For me, second half they seemed to let us have the ball along the back line. But who knows, I have a memory of a gold fish at the moment :tearsofjoy:
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I wouldn't trust my memory either if I was me, I mean, if I was you, wait, what was I saying again...
 
Bedfordspurs said:
They are a solid side who would struggle in this league.
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Harsh take.
The Spanish football expert on the 'Totally Football' podcast with James Richardson, said that Villareal are a very good team and very good squad now, with 2 good players for each position. He said they are the ones to watch outside of the 'big 3' and that Spurs would find it very tough. He said their coach is very awkward and cunning, and their midfield is excellent.
So it is no surprise that it was a hard game for us to thrive.
 
Notice our goal was an o.g. against Villareal.

Notice the only goal we have conceded all season was an o.g. by Romero i.e. the big deflection from Evanilson's awful scuffed shot.
 
Bullet said:
Harsh take.
The Spanish football expert on the 'Totally Football' podcast with James Richardson, said that Villareal are a very good team and very good squad now, with 2 good players for each position. He said they are the ones to watch outside of the 'big 3' and that Spurs would find it very tough. He said their coach is very awkward and cunning, and their midfield is excellent.
So it is no surprise that it was a hard game for us to thrive.
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He could have been wrong
I do listen to that pod and I really like it but if they are the their best side form Spain it shows how far ahead the prem is
 
SpurMeUp said:
Okay yes, would need to watch it back. Was it us moving the ball quicker first half, or them giving us more time? For me, second half they seemed to let us have the ball along the back line. But who knows, I have a memory of a gold fish at the moment :tearsofjoy:
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Other way around for me
They let us keep the ball first half
Second half they pressed slightly more and we gave them the ball repeatedly for a spell which strangely they gave back every time
 
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