OMT Tottenham vs Sheffield United

[thfcsteff]

Who defends against the opposition’s wide forwards (that they inevitably keep VERY wide) in that formation?

Quite. It is not equipped to deal with wide forwards! I am desperate to see us play a side which does not start with Aurier, thus it gets tricky. I suppose the only switch I'd make is Sissoko as he can always drop in to RB for a four (and he ends up covering/playing there half the time anyway) and I'd be relying on Bergwijn and Son to drop back and cover.



Lloris


Dier Sanchez Davies

Sissoko


Bergwijn Lo Celso Ndombele Son

Dele
Kane


The more conventional thing would be this


Lloris

Aurier
Dier
Sanchez
Davies

Sissoko NDombele

Son LoCelso Dele

Kane

I want to see combinations, so can NDombele and Sissoko work together, can we keep the Kane/Dele/Son partnership together, and can Gio be the magician who helps unlock the pathways?

Leaves Bergwijn, Lucas and Lamela on the bench which allows for speed in the last 25 mins to either take or kill off a game.

If I was being smart, this is the more professional side. If I was being Ossie, I'd love to see that first one!

 

[parklane1]

Like you say a proper DM is a priority, then I think that would allow Lo Celso and NDombele to both have the freedom to play....

I accept that our FB's are not the best but the priority for me is getting the DM position sorted out. We are so open and our back four are under more pressure in every game because of it.

 

[harr1984]

I accept that our FB's are not the best but the priority for me is getting the DM position sorted out. We are so open and our back four are under more pressure in every game because of it.

Agree, and I’ll go against the grain and say I don’t think Aurier is as worthless as many make out. I heard somewhere that the amount of chances he creates far exceeds his defensive errors and the number of assists he has outweighs the number of goals conceded that have come from an error from him. Of course he’s far from perfect, but there are far bigger issues to sort out than him and if we have a DM I think the defence as a collective would be better and Aurier who is an attacking FB would be less exposed.....

 

[parklane1]

Agree, and I’ll go against the grain and say I don’t think Aurier is as worthless as many make out. I heard somewhere that the amount of chances he creates far exceeds his defensive errors and the number of assists he has outweighs the number of goals conceded that have come from an error from him. Of course he’s far from perfect, but there are far bigger issues to sort out than him and if we have a DM I think the defence as a collective would be better and Aurier who is an attacking FB would be less exposed.....

Yep i I can't dance with any of that, the DM in any team is worth his wait in gold and its a position that a lot of fans overlook in comparison to the stars of a team. When you look at the real top sides of the past they all had one (Utd Keane, Chelski Kanti, Arsenal Vieria, Liverpool Souness, etc, etc) We have had Palicios, Wynyama and we always looked stronger tighter with those type of players.

I always thought Dier could be one for us but it seems he is going to be our CH going forward. What we have at the moment is reminiscent of the time we had Mason and Bentalb as our CM and were overun a bit like we are now.

 

[Finney Is Back]

A centreback in the running for MOM in a game where his team conceded three goals to passes into the box, by a team that has a third of the possession is an interesting outlook!

Yeah. It could just be that Dier wasn’t ‘obviously bad’ on Thursday, which is perhaps as good as we got that evening?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Agree, and I’ll go against the grain and say I don’t think Aurier is as worthless as many make out. I heard somewhere that the amount of chances he creates far exceeds his defensive errors and the number of assists he has outweighs the number of goals conceded that have come from an error from him. Of course he’s far from perfect, but there are far bigger issues to sort out than him and if we have a DM I think the defence as a collective would be better and Aurier who is an attacking FB would be less exposed.....

His defensive error stats are low because he doesn’t defend to make the error according to how they qualify it
If he is out of position and say Sanchez’s is covering... and Sanchez makes the error it’s his stat. Aurier could be playing CF at that point
It’s his eventual positining, lack of awareness and lack of positive defending (defending on the front foot like Tanganga) that makes him weak
And his crossing is average, just that we put a lot through him which’s again makes his stats look good
Honestly he is like a weak Chimbonda and the whole team compensates for him.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yeah. It could just be that Dier wasn’t ‘obviously bad’ on Thursday, which is perhaps as good as we got that evening?

I thought Dier was fine
Let down by his colleagues when it comes to collective defending
That second goal he looks at McBirdie completely unaware that there is a man behind him.. why isn’t Davies or Hugo shouting to him there is a man there (not that he can do anything about it)

 

[Finney Is Back]

Quite. It is not equipped to deal with wide forwards! I am desperate to see us play a side which does not start with Aurier, thus it gets tricky. I suppose the only switch I'd make is Sissoko as he can always drop in to RB for a four (and he ends up covering/playing there half the time anyway) and I'd be relying on Bergwijn and Son to drop back and cover.



Lloris


Dier Sanchez Davies

Sissoko


Bergwijn Lo Celso Ndombele Son

Dele
Kane


The more conventional thing would be this


Lloris

Aurier
Dier
Sanchez
Davies

Sissoko NDombele

Son LoCelso Dele

Kane

I want to see combinations, so can NDombele and Sissoko work together, can we keep the Kane/Dele/Son partnership together, and can Gio be the magician who helps unlock the pathways?

Leaves Bergwijn, Lucas and Lamela on the bench which allows for speed in the last 25 mins to either take or kill off a game.

If I was being smart, this is the more professional side. If I was being Ossie, I'd love to see that first one!

3-1-4-2.... might work... If doing that then probably better to put Alderweireld as the right sided CH and play Dier instead of Sissoko. Instead of Sissoko filling in at right back, probably better for the right/left sided player to fan out if the attack is down their side and then Dier slots in to cover at centre back.

 

[Finney Is Back]

His defensive error stats are low because he doesn’t defend to make the error according to how they qualify it
If he is out of position and say Sanchez’s is covering... and Sanchez makes the error it’s his stat. Aurier could be playing CF at that point
It’s his eventual positining, lack of awareness and lack of positive defending (defending on the front foot like Tanganga) that makes him weak
And his crossing is average, just that we put a lot through him which’s again makes his stats look good
Honestly he is like a weak Chimbonda and the whole team compensates for him.

Except it isn’t being out of position, it is positioning himself according to our manager’s instructions....

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Except it isn’t being out of position, it is positioning himself according to our manager’s instructions....

I’m sure though when we’re defending the instructions aren’t stay still and make no challenge or let the man run pass you

and as I’ve said loads... we play him further forward because he is weak every else

I’m not unique in saying that ... there are quite a few articles talking about him this week and how poor he is

 

[Finney Is Back]

Yep i I can't dance with any of that, the DM in any team is worth his wait in gold and its a position that a lot of fans overlook in comparison to the stars of a team. When you look at the real top sides of the past they all had one (Utd Keane, Chelski Kanti, Arsenal Vieria, Liverpool Souness, etc, etc) We have had Palicios, Wynyama and we always looked stronger tighter with those type of players.

I always thought Dier could be one for us but it seems he is going to be our CH going forward. What we have at the moment is reminiscent of the time we had Mason and Bentalb as our CM and were overun a bit like we are now.

I’ve said it all along. A good DM and we’ll instantly look better defensively. Yes we need better full backs on both sides, but a top class DM would make more difference.

 

[parklane1]

I’ve said it all along. A good DM and we’ll instantly look better defensively. Yes we need better full backs on both sides, but a top class DM would make more difference.

I know you have and i do agree, to be honest i thought Dier would step into that position well ( i know you do not think that) but it seems Jose sees him as a starting CB and i have no problem with that.

 

[Mr_B]

no excuses, no injuries, we had better players man for man, this squarely comes down to the manager.

 

[thfcsteff]

3-1-4-2.... might work... If doing that then probably better to put Alderweireld as the right sided CH and play Dier instead of Sissoko. Instead of Sissoko filling in at right back, probably better for the right/left sided player to fan out if the attack is down their side and then Dier slots in to cover at centre back.

I did think of that but I like the idea of Dier and Sanchez continuing to work together. I also want to see it Ndombele and Sissoko can do anything together.

Of course it is all academic as we look forward to another "attacking" lineup on paper with no real method beyond Roadrunnerball!

 

[thfcsteff]

I accept that our FB's are not the best but the priority for me is getting the DM position sorted out. We are so open and our back four are under more pressure in every game because of it.

Right.
The problem is whenever Dier plays there he gets coated by people, despite the fact he is clearly very good at that role and alongside a functioning Ndombele could excel.

I think if Tanganga was fit you'd see Dier as a DM right now. We clearly need another option for the squad.

 

[thfcsteff]

Except it isn’t being out of position, it is positioning himself according to our manager’s instructions....

My thoughts on Aurier have been consistent (and unpopular!) and I have seen nothing to alter them. However, if we have to accommodate him because the manager believes he does a job going forward, then he needs to do that job, not brick the bed with poor crosses. That being said, I think he is another player who needs constant man-management, and to me, it looks like he is coasting and getting away with it by proxy.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Right.
The problem is whenever Dier plays there he gets coated by people, despite the fact he is clearly very good at that role and alongside a functioning Ndombele could excel.

I think if Tanganga was fit you'd see Dier as a DM right now. We clearly need another option for the squad.

Dier played well CB Vs Sheffield but no one can keep that defence solid with the lack of concentration they have

 

[Finney Is Back]

My thoughts on Aurier have been consistent (and unpopular!) and I have seen nothing to alter them. However, if we have to accommodate him because the manager believes he does a job going forward, then he needs to do that job, not brick the bed with poor crosses. That being said, I think he is another player who needs constant man-management, and to me, it looks like he is coasting and getting away with it by proxy.

Typically when either of our full backs (or Son get the ball in a crossing position we are largely outnumbered in the box with nobody making a run trying to get free.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Typically when either of our full backs (or Son get the ball in a crossing position we are largely outnumbered in the box with nobody making a run trying to get free.

Aurier kicked the ball out or very very king every cross he made
Could be outnumbered but if you can’t keep it on the pitch...

 

[Finney Is Back]

Aurier kicked the ball out or very very king every cross he made
Could be outnumbered but if you can’t keep it on the pitch...

Davies’s were just as bad. Take a look in the middle and see what they are trying to hit. Our movement is woeful. The only time we look like scoring are from punts forward and getting on second ball.

if our main attacking tactic other than the punt forward and fighting for the second ball (that we hardly ever win) and getting it wide right to Aurier and hoping he can create a goal with a cross are our main attacking plays then it says something about our manager.