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***OMT Tottenham v Dinamo Zagreb***

Man of the match

  • Total voters
    19
  • Poll closed .
Raziel said:
Every manager we hire is playing a rigged game, part of that is our fault (Sugar era and start of PL era with us not in a position to take advantage of new money cost us over a decade of progress), part of that is FA/UK allowing fudging money doping clubs (City/Chelsea), and they all have had to do more with less.

Poch is a culmination of the club addressing a lot of that handicap over 15+ years prior, we have now been in Europe for 12 or so consecutive years (end here most likely), Harry got 4th twice in three years, AVB as someone mentioned put up a points total that in almost every other year would have been 4th or better, Poch made that consistent, and to his credit made it enjoyable (Harry was almost as divisive as Jose, and a lot of people didn't take to AVB). So as I said, lots of credit to Poch and I would have the view a lot of people have of him if he had walked away post CL (when he knew he was broken, team was broken, reset was needed), but I will never have the view that somehow we were a bottom half team or something with brick players that he magically transformed, and there is no way out of saying a team with Lloris, Jan & Toby, Walker, Rose, Dembele, Eriksen, Kane, Son, Dele (all in the best season/prime of their careers) won nothing ..

We have been setback but not done, once the stadium revenue kicks back in, some normality returns, we will be well positioned to challenge top 4 again regardless of manager/personnel changes
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We weren't a bottom half team. You are right. We were the 6th best team in the league when he took over and he was given the 6th biggest wage bill and £3m a transfer window net to improve us from there. I wonder how much improving of us Jose would do armed with £3 million to spend each transfer window?
 
Raziel said:
Pick the thread mate, we got to a CL final but the team had been stumbling long before that date. Surely you remember the poster who predicted Poch's end? posted a whole long thread, showed GF/GA/points/Player records, early in the year before the CL run.
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Let's say we accept that Poch was doing poorly the year up to his sacking (the results and performances were indeed poor but with a massive Levy shaped set of extenuating circumstances).

Does that mean that we disregard what our current manager is doing or not doing more specifically?

Let's say we even accept that Poch was an absolute failure, does that change Mourinho's own failings?
 
Raziel said:
Now yes, and it will happen, it's now just down to the timing.

While we were still in Europa and still within distance of a top 4 spot (realistically, not mathematically) it made sense to let him continue.

This week changed that.
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Great. You and I finally agree on something! Next thing you know we'll be having a pre match beer together at The Shelf bar!!!!
 
Raziel said:
Now yes, and it will happen, it's now just down to the timing.

While we were still in Europa and still within distance of a top 4 spot (realistically, not mathematically) it made sense to let him continue.

This week changed that.
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I don't think this week has really changed anything, the results were what was going to happen. He hasn't been the answer for quite a while which is frustrating as there are some seeds of quality in what he's tried to do. But it's been shrouded in veil of cowardice. I've said a bunch of times I've nothing against counter attacking football when played correctly but we are so passive and defense orientated that he just needs to go.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Great. You and I finally agree on something! Next thing you know we'll be having a pre match beer together at The Shelf bar!!!!
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We can always have that mate, disagreements don't mean anything other than points of view.

I (believe it or not) backed Poch until it was clear he couldn't turn it around, I backed Jose because it was clear what the mandate was (win something now, not build) regardless of if you agree with it or not, now that he can't deliver that mandate, his time is up.
 
Bishop said:
I don't think this week has really changed anything, the results were what was going to happen. He hasn't been the answer for quite a while which is frustrating as there are some seeds of quality in what he's tried to do. But it's been shrouded in veil of cowardice. I've said a bunch of times I've nothing against counter attacking football when played correctly but we are so passive and defense orientated that he just needs to go.
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Of course the week has changed stuff, because before it was opinion, let's say

- Sunday scuffed shot doesn't hit Toby and ref doesn't give a brick decision
- Kane puts away one of the chances Thursday

We could have played exactly the same, the above happens, we are 3-4 points off 4th and in a QF against Villareal.

So easy to say hindsight, but until the results happened, he had to be given the opportunity.
 
Don't know whether this has already been mentioned (too depressed after last night's shambles to look through the thread) but is is incredible that we made 6 substitutions yet still kept on our 2 ball watching central defenders and Sissoko who contributed virtually nothing in midfield throughout the 120 minutes. Surely Toby for either of the 2 CDs would have made sense sometime during that period and while thre were no other midfielders on the bench dropping Dele deeper might have been a better option than subbing him after his usual 60 minutes
 
Raziel said:
No, and it won't be a mistake to fire him, as it wasn't then for Poch.
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Why can't you just accept the FACT that some people disagree with you? You know, some people DO think it was a mistake to fire him. They provide some supportive reasons. That's it. That's all.

While I am here, let me also remind you of the Mourinho appt and what everyone said. He is a winner. He will bring silverware. Well he has done fudge all, in fact he is brought us backwards (Joe fudging Hart for "leadership" - the spanner!)...

This post might be lightly influences by my listening to Sleaford Mods :D
 
Abbeyspur said:
Don't know whether this has already been mentioned (too depressed after last night's shambles to look through the thread) but is is incredible that we made 6 substitutions yet still kept on our 2 ball watching central defenders and Sissoko who contributed virtually nothing in midfield throughout the 120 minutes. Surely Toby for either of the 2 CDs would have made sense sometime during that period and while thre were no other midfielders on the bench dropping Dele deeper might have been a better option than subbing him after his usual 60 minutes
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His subbing was fudging terrible last night.
 
thfcsteff said:
Why can't you just accept the FACT that some people disagree with you? You know, some people DO think it was a mistake to fire him. They provide some supportive reasons. That's it. That's all.

While I am here, let me also remind you of the Mourinho appt and what everyone said. He is a winner. He will bring silverware. Well he has done fudge all, in fact he is brought us backwards (Joe fudging Hart for "leadership" - the spanner!)...

This post might be lightly influences by my listening to Sleaford Mods :D
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Yep and Jose failed, and he will pay the price for that with his job ..

Re the other thing mate, I'm not the one constantly linking Jose failure is somehow equal to "see it was a mistake to fire Poch" they are not related, but (again, not me) it's being constantly posted.

I asked you (not sure if I missed the answer), and anyone can feel free to answer, what example of a manager in the PL being in the position that Poch was in turned it around?

And that's my problem with the Poch argument
- We can have opinions on how good a manager he was = everyone entitled to that
- But to question if it was the right time to fire him? really? he was done and to my knowledge (please correct me) no one has turned it around at that stage. So to sit here and say "he would have turned it around" isn't an opinion, it's a hope that any reasonable club ownership would never take (risk/reward).
 
Raziel said:
Yep and Jose failed, and he will pay the price for that with his job ..

Re the other thing mate, I'm not the one constantly linking Jose failure is somehow equal to "see it was a mistake to fire Poch" they are not related, but (again, not me) it's being constantly posted.

I asked you (not sure if I missed the answer), and anyone can feel free to answer, what example of a manager in the PL being in the position that Poch was in turned it around?

And that's my problem with the Poch argument
- We can have opinions on how good a manager he was = everyone entitled to that
- But to question if it was the right time to fire him? really? he was done and to my knowledge (please correct me) no one has turned it around at that stage. So to sit here and say "he would have turned it around" isn't an opinion, it's a hope that any reasonable club ownership would never take (risk/reward).
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For me the question about Poch turning it around hinges on the gap between what Poch wanted (from what I can gather it was a player cull and upgrades on those players) versus what Levy gave him (two transfer windows without a single player, not even an over the hill Saha and aged Nelsen). Nigel Pearson at Leicester turned it around with his great escape and there might be others.
 
It's a non argument because clubs don't stick by managers when they hit a rough patch so there's no one to compare to.

The question regarding that last year of his time was were there reasons outside of his control that lead to the problems we had and moving forward were those outside problems going to be a factor - the lack of investment in the team both in terms of spend and wages comparative to our rivals being the major contributing factor which we all know was not going to be a problem once in to the stadium so it was reasonable to think he, with his proven track record of rebuilding a stale team, could do so once again. I mean with the money spent in his last window that's obviously what the club thought at that time too otherwise why soend so much money on players he wanted? A poor 12 games later and it was bye bye project rebuild.

The argument against keeping him was that the players were good enough and we didn't need a rebuild and a better manager with the know how to win would turn us around - this is now being rewritten because it is painfully obvious to be embarrassingly wrong.
 
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Raziel said:
Yep and Jose failed, and he will pay the price for that with his job ..

Re the other thing mate, I'm not the one constantly linking Jose failure is somehow equal to "see it was a mistake to fire Poch" they are not related, but (again, not me) it's being constantly posted.

I asked you (not sure if I missed the answer), and anyone can feel free to answer, what example of a manager in the PL being in the position that Poch was in turned it around?

And that's my problem with the Poch argument
- We can have opinions on how good a manager he was = everyone entitled to that
- But to question if it was the right time to fire him? really? he was done and to my knowledge (please correct me) no one has turned it around at that stage. So to sit here and say "he would have turned it around" isn't an opinion, it's a hope that any reasonable club ownership would never take (risk/reward).
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Hahahaha, I have always said he deserved the CHANCE based on what he had done under insane circumstances. Who said "he would've turned it around"? I'll accept your apology.

As for your form question, has any manager in Prem history dealt with being homeless for a season and two thirds, being ignored and fobbed off piggy bank chump change and somehow clawed to a European final? Wanna weigh your questions, there's one back.

And nah, you keep going there. Don't blame everyone else. Take your share hahahahaha!
 
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