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****OMT***** Tottenham Hotspur vs. West Bromwich Albion - 26/12/13: 3pm

diego_maradona said:
It's a fair point but I call it as I see it today. Vlad was shocking. Not even his biggest fan can defend him there. When he's great I'll say he's great. I've not said get rid of him.

What's tough is seeing how quickly we are regressing. We had a brilliant mentality over the last few years which we've built organically. Expectations have risen which is fantastic as a club. Not just false expectations . But it's being undone so quickly
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I wasn't going all out on you, sorry about that. Your post came in handy, that's all :)

Not defending him, but that's not the Vlad I know really..Don't know what's going on with him in the past couple of games - I know it has something to do with the gap between midfield and defense, but that's not an excuse for him lacking pace and concentration - those are his strongest points imo.
Anyway, this wasn't about Vlad..but I'll give an example to support my post - Bentaleb is now being praised (well deserved too), but I'm sure he'll be thrashed when he has a bad game, that's all.

Same with the rest, it's like I'm watching the same tape over and over. The expectations here are unrealistic imo and I've grown to like this club (weirdly and not just because of Vlad - I've watched all games so far whether he played or not)..but the attitude here needs to be inline with the reality, that's all.

Happy holidays!
 
onlyme said:
If you were offered more points than last season and the same points as Manchester United after 18 games at the beginning of the season what would you have said?
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Where United are is irrelevant. There are six other teams above us. Also, United are on an upward ascent and we are...well we are levelling off at best.
 
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How anyone can claim that was any better than under AVB is beyond me. It was exactly the same as our bad performances under him in terms of actual chance creation, except instead of controlled passing it was 'champagne! Tottenham way!' school kids knocking it forward as quickly as possible with the end result being exactly the same.
 
Not just a romanian said:
I wasn't going all out on you, sorry about that. Your post came in handy, that's all :)

Not defending him, but that's not the Vlad I know really..Don't know what's going on with him in the past couple of games - I know it has something to do with the gap between midfield and defense, but that's not an excuse for him lacking pace and concentration - those are his strongest points imo.
Anyway, this wasn't about Vlad..but I'll give an example to support my post - Bentaleb is now being praised (well deserved too), but I'm sure he'll be thrashed when he has a bad game, that's all.

Same with the rest, it's like I'm watching the same tape over and over. The expectations here are unrealistic imo and I've grown to like this club (weirdly and not just because of Vlad - I've watched all games so far whether he played or not)..but the attitude here needs to be inline with the reality, that's all.

Happy holidays!
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Expectations are dropping fast to be honest. Only 3 years ago we should have been competing for the league.

Suddenly top 4 is a massive reach. We're no where near it.

Vlad isn't helped when you have attackers running straight at you with no protection.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
How anyone can claim that was any better than under AVB is beyond me. It was exactly the same as our bad performances under him in terms of actual chance creation, except instead of controlled passing it was 'champagne! Tottenham way!' school kids knocking it forward as quickly as possible with the end result being exactly the same.
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Absolutely
 
As was pointed out in couple of radio interviews Sherwood just did following the game, he hasn't had any proper time to work with the players yet. So I don't think we can or should judge Sherwood's tactics and team set up until after the current rush of games when he has had the squad on the training ground for a bit.
 
Yes it was ordinary, but I'm starting to think it has less to do with the coaching and more to do with a lack of quality in some of our players. To me, they just don't look very good. It's all well and good to say well they need to settle in but even in that instance you can see something in a player. I dont see much in Holtby, Siggursson and Chadli. I fear we may have wasted a lot of money on some lemons, it does happen.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
How anyone can claim that was any better than under AVB is beyond me. It was exactly the same as our bad performances under him in terms of actual chance creation, except instead of controlled passing it was 'champagne! Tottenham way!' school kids knocking it forward as quickly as possible with the end result being exactly the same.
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I got to see Eriksen do a fine Modric impression for 90 minutes I'm happy enough.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
Yes it was ordinary, but I'm starting to think it has less to do with the coaching and more to do with a lack of quality in some of our players. To me, they just don't look very good. It's all well and good to say well they need to settle in but even in that instance you can see something in a player. I dont see much in Holtby, Siggursson and Chadli. I fear we may have wasted a lot of money on some lemons, it does happen.
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Holtby I would not write off but siggy is awful never understood the love he gets on this board average player at best.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
How anyone can claim that was any better than under AVB is beyond me. It was exactly the same as our bad performances under him in terms of actual chance creation, except instead of controlled passing it was 'champagne! Tottenham way!' school kids knocking it forward as quickly as possible with the end result being exactly the same.
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No, can't have that. We were better, with balls going into the box and being received by multiple players inside the area, who were only prevented from scoring by their own poor touches and the general lack of cohesion between Ade, Soldado, Siggy and Eriksen. That ball into Ade by Walker playing out of defence is a prime example: if Ade's touch had been a mite better, he would have had a free shot on goal. But his touch was bad and the goalie collected. Similarly, Soldado's attempted backheel into an empty net failed, his flick on from a corner floated just wide, Chadli's late cut-back just missed Ade, Rose's late cut-back just missed everyone within the box....and those are just those I can remember off the top of my head, I'm sure there's more from the first half I'm forgetting.

Under AVB, I suspect we would have played endless side-passes on the half-way line before conceding a goal due to inept defending, subbing on a striker, going 4-4-2 and then taking fifty long shots from outside the box hoping for a corner that would come to nothing anyway because we posed absolutely no danger at corners. It pains me to say it, but it's true. Sigh. I still think he could have solved the problems within the squad given time, but that's asking a lot of a chairman and a sport that both demand competitiveness at the very least, if not success.
 
ringo said:
As was pointed out in couple of radio interviews Sherwood just did following the game, he hasn't had any proper time to work with the players yet. So I don't think we can or should judge Sherwood's tactics and team set up until after the current rush of games when he has had the squad on the training ground for a bit.
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Haha, really funny that he wasn't willing to give AVB the time to allow seven foreign players to settle into the side this season, or more than 3 league games last year before briefing a prominent football presenter that the players were tired and unhappy with the new Head Coach...

**** it, I was willing to give Sherwood a chance but I'm bloody angry right now. He's a **** to me.
 
DubaiSpur said:
No, can't have that. We were better, with balls going into the box and being received by multiple players inside the area, who were only prevented from scoring by their own poor touches and the general lack of cohesion between Ade, Soldado, Siggy and Eriksen. That ball into Ade by Walker playing out of defence is a prime example: if Ade's touch had been a mite better, he would have had a free shot on goal. But his touch was bad and the goalie collected. Similarly, Soldado's attempted backheel into an empty net failed, his flick on from a corner floated just wide, Chadli's late cut-back just missed Ade, Rose's late cut-back just missed everyone within the box....and those are just those I can remember off the top of my head, I'm sure there's more from the first half I'm forgetting.

Under AVB, I suspect we would have played endless side-passes on the half-way line before conceding a goal due to inept defending, subbing on a striker, going 4-4-2 and then taking fifty long shots from outside the box hoping for a corner that would come to nothing anyway because we posed absolutely no danger at corners. It pains me to say it, but it's true. Sigh. I still think he could have solved the problems within the squad given time, but that's asking a lot of a chairman and a sport that both demand competitiveness at the very least, if not success.
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I'm sorry but 'balls going into the box' doesn't mean it was better to me. Neither does receiving the ball inside the area. If you pile enough players in there and lump the ball in there enough times, some of our players will be on the end of it eventually. But we were not threatening. Not any more than we were under AVB.

If I had written the second half of your first paragraph after an AVB match I wouldn't be able to move for people telling me I was making excuses for a clueless charlatan.
 
Hootnow said:
When he first came to the league?
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He still had more composure on the ball than Eriksen, he was harder to dispossess too. I remember pundits saying how shocked they were at how good he was in possession because he had a frail look to him. Didn't Wenger pass on him cause he looked too small?
 
BrainOfLevy said:
I'm sorry but 'balls going into the box' doesn't mean it was better to me. Neither does receiving the ball inside the area. If you pile enough players in there and lump the ball in there enough times, some of our players will be on the end of it eventually. But we were not threatening. Not any more than we were under AVB.

If I had written the second half of your first paragraph after an AVB match I wouldn't be able to move for people telling me I was making excuses for a clueless charlatan.
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Now, bad control let us down when we were trying to shoot from within the box.
Under AVB, our lack of a cutting edge let us down forcing us to shoot from outside the box.

If we'd controlled the ball better, we could have shot from within the box, which I'm sure has a greater statistical chance of finding the back of the net than shots from outside the box. Ergo, we were more threatening (especially considering we did take some fairly accurate long shots anyway).

If balls going into the box to the feet of three, four, five players trying to get a shot off isn't 'more threatening' to you than having one or a maximum of two players in the box hoping against hope that Holtby/Paulinho/Dembele would play a slide rule pass instead of taking yet another long shot....then I'd suggest that your (entirely understandable) anger over AVB's sacking is blinding you to the fact that sometimes, simplifying things ('get the ball forward!') can indeed produce better results in the short-term (long-term is another matter entirely).
 
DubaiSpur said:
Now, bad control let us down when we were trying to shoot from within the box.
Under AVB, our lack of a cutting edge let us down forcing us to shoot from outside the box.

If we'd controlled the ball better, we could have shot from within the box, which I'm sure has a greater statistical chance of finding the back of the net than shots from outside the box. Ergo, we were more threatening (especially considering we did take some fairly accurate long shots anyway).

If balls going into the box to the feet of three, four, five players trying to get a shot off isn't 'more threatening' to you than having one or a maximum of two players in the box hoping against hope that Holtby/Paulinho/Dembele would play a slide rule pass instead of taking yet another long shot....then I'd suggest that your (entirely understandable) anger over AVB's sacking is blinding you to the fact that sometimes, simplifying things ('get the ball forward!') can indeed produce better results in the short-term (long-term is another matter entirely).
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Creating proper chances means putting the ball in a position so the finisher can finish. A proper chance to me is receiving the ball in a good position at a good angle and being able to get the shot away. If we are lumping it in all game and requiring our top class international footballers to 'control it better' I don't class that as good chances being created. It's more pleasing to the crowd to see the ball flung into the mixer but it isn't actually any more effective. The other problem is we can't get shots away when the chance isn't a proper chance because there are too many players surrounding the finisher.

You're damn right I'm angry. I expected us under Sherwood, if we were going to be more 'up and at them' that we would at least win our winnable home games without too much trouble while maybe sacrificing some of our away consistency. In my backing of Sherwood this week I absolutely did not expect what I saw today. It may well get better under Sherwood once he's had time, but it just makes clear what a ****ing joke it all is, because he is the guy that was in the ear of the chairman and briefing to prominent members of the football media precisely when the previous Head Coach needed time himself. It's a joke.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Now, bad control let us down when we were trying to shoot from within the box.
Under AVB, our lack of a cutting edge let us down forcing us to shoot from outside the box.

If we'd controlled the ball better, we could have shot from within the box, which I'm sure has a greater statistical chance of finding the back of the net than shots from outside the box. Ergo, we were more threatening (especially considering we did take some fairly accurate long shots anyway).

If balls going into the box to the feet of three, four, five players trying to get a shot off isn't 'more threatening' to you than having one or a maximum of two players in the box hoping against hope that Holtby/Paulinho/Dembele would play a slide rule pass instead of taking yet another long shot....then I'd suggest that your (entirely understandable) anger over AVB's sacking is blinding you to the fact that sometimes, simplifying things ('get the ball forward!') can indeed produce better results in the short-term (long-term is another matter entirely).
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This result is disappointing beyond disappointing..................

Agggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... A 100 million spent this season..I can,t believe it. We can't even beat West Brom on
our own patch..........................
 
That was terrible, in my view worse than most things under AVB, we looked even more clueless and the decision to bring on a youth team player ahead of a French international on the back of a game against southampton's reserves is Insane
 
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